Stutzen rifles: good or bad for long distance shots?

[CoopT]

Hi all,

What are your thoughts on stutzens? They certainly do look lovely but when it comes to long distance shots at 200/250 meters do the shorter barrels limit their accuracy? I have a Steyr Classic M in 7x64 with a 20" (508mm) barrel and wondering if it could be as good used when driven hunting or in mountain scenarios. Weren't they designed for mountains anyway?

Speak soon,
T

 

[deeangeo]

I can’t imagine any issues with a shorter barrel stutzen.
I’ve owned several and currently have two.
I last used my .243Win stutzen On a group of hinds and calves at 220+ yds and took two hinds and two calves without issue.
All my stutzens have been/are modern Steyr Mannlicher mod.L or Classic rifles & I also have two old Mannlicher Schoenauers in 6.5x54.
As long as you’re zeroed correctly all will be well.

 

[CoopT]

Very helpful, thanks.

 

[Southern]

If the stutzen shoots tight groups, it is going to be just like any other 20-inch rifle with a half stock.

I have owned several full stock rifles, which are usually built on nice actions, and are lovely rifles. There just are not any "entry-level", plastic stock stutzen rifles. I currently hunt with a Steyr Mannlicher Model M Luxus Stutzen .270 Winchester and a Brno 22F in 7x64mm. Others I have owned are Brno in 8x60S, Mannlichers in 6.5x54 and .30-06, Mauser custom in 8x57JS. None of them shot worse than 1.5 MOA, and some of them shoot a favorite load into an inch or better. I feel the need to get a CZ full stock in something, before they all go away.

You are going to have iron sights on them. Learn to rely on those, as the functional reasons for carrying these rifles are light weight, fast pointing, fast second shots, being able to carry them out of the way on your back, or in one hand, while navigating steep terrain and thick woods. My scopes are in QR rings or claw mounts, and are secondary sights, carried in a leather scabbard. Mine are set for 150 yards with the iron sights, and 200 yard zero with the scopes ( 2-7x35mm on the .270 and 1.5-5x on the 7x64 ).

 

[Klenchblaize]

Hi all,

What are your thoughts on stutzens? They certainly do look lovely but when it comes to long distance shots at 200/250 meters do the shorter barrels limit their accuracy?
T

Only if it's other than green!

K

 

[Andy-shooter]

I have a Blaser K95 stutzen in 308 and it is staggeringly accurate and even though the rifle is short it still has a 20” barrel so bullet velocity is fine. I’d be very happy betting £50 on hitting a cricket ball sized target at 200+ yards but I still wouldn’t shoot a deer that far away becaus I prefer to sneak up on them.

 

[Klenchblaize]

To answer CoopT sensibly it's probably helpful to observe you rarely if ever see a Stutzen on the Firing Point of a Sporting Rifle competition when shot beyond 100 yards.

SD's charming hand-wringing, wishy-washy Liberal, Pine Marten, being the exception.

K

 

[Pine Marten]

To answer CoopT sensibly it's probably helpful to observe you rarely if ever see a Stutzen on the Firing Point of a Sporting Rifle competition when shot beyond 100 yards.

SD's charming hand-wringing, wishy-washy Liberal, Pine Marten, being the exception.

K

Well that's because to me, the Sporting Rifle events are practice for the real thing, so I take my stalking rifle to see what I can do with it. The answer being that it is perfectly capable of hitting deer in the right place at 200m and maybe more, I don't know. But I can, and have, messed up. Nothing to do with the the rifle though.

 

[mchughcb]

250m is an easy shot for a stutzen even with factory ammo.

 

[mchughcb]

Stutzen on driven hunts?
Why not.

 

[WildBoarHunter]

Having had rifles with 24, 22 and 20 inch barrels, I'd say stick to 22 if you can. 20 is great for handling but when you start cronographing your ammo you realise the speed loss in considerable and speeds are nowhere near stated cartridge load data. Muzzle blast and report are also increased considerably. You can make up for the lost speed by home loading and adding some powder charge but this is not something I'd recommend myself. It creates even more blast and report and increases pressure...
Full power cartridges like 7×64, 30-06 and 270 win need longer barrels to burn slower powders effectively.
When cronographing my 308 win cartridges shot from a 20 inch R8 barrel I noticed the speed loss was about 50 m/ s on average. This is not a small loss, considering the 308 cal is not so very fast to begin with.
Now got myself a 22 inch long 6.5×55 barrel for my R8. Should be a better balance of speed, report, blast and recoil. And the R8 is so short to begin with, you don't really need the shorter barrel.

 

[mchughcb]

Stutzen are great lightweight setups. No deer every complained it was hit with a few ftlb less energy at 250m but a hell of a lot of older hunters will complain carrying another 500gr on their shoulder all day.

 

[VIGILAIRE]

Always had a thing about stutzens since I read Bob Milek's report on a bear hunt with a Sako stutzen in 30.06 in Guns and Ammo way back when.

Run 4 now, CZ 550s in 9.3x62 and 7x64, a CZ 452 in .22LR and a Krico in 5.6x57. Never had the opportunity to chrono them but they seem to work as required.

 

[CoopT]

Stutzen on driven hunts?
Why not.

I should think so!

F7849314-4FF8-4B5F-8F4F-2C2C02A15A00.jpeg

• CoopT
• Feb 24, 2019
• 2

 

[Southern]

The large capacity cases, relative to bore volume, suffer the most loss of velocity in a 20 inch barrel, from a 24 inch.
Lots of folks on this SDUK site hunt with 20 inch suppressed rifles, so they know exactly how much.

I never chronographed by 7x57 Mauser Stutzen, my Mannlicher .30-06 ( 20 inch ), or my M-S 1952 in 6.5x54.

My 7x64mm suffers the worst lost of velocity, about 200 fps.
My .270 Mannlicher gets a surprising 2,950 fps with a 130-gr load, only 100 fps slower than my 24-inch barrel custom Mauser.
My 7mm-08s ( 2 with 20-inch barrels ) only lose about 100 fps.

My 8x60S Brno 22F moved a 200-gr Nosler Partition at 2,500 fps ...enough... almost end-to-end through a large grizzly bear at 25 yards.
My Sporting Mauser in 8x60S runs my exact same load at 2,570 from a 23.5 inch barrel.

I know a fellow with a Sako Mannlicher carbine in .375 H&H that gets right at 2,600 fps from a 270-gr load.
My Sako L61R, with a 24 inch barrel, squirts out the same load at 2,700 fps, so he is doing alright.

 

[WildBoarHunter]

7×64 and 30-06 are not very good candidates for stutzen rifles. With a short barrel you lose up to about 200 fps and with 7×64 you're at 7×57 speed level. With a lot more blast, recoil and report than you would get from a standard barreled 7×57. Same thing with 30-06, you get standard barreled 308 win performance along with all the negative stuff caused by powder burning up outside the barrel.
Stutzen are great for handling and lovely rifles, but consider caliber options if you can. Some slower calibers might have less loss of speed and still behave rather nice from a short barrel... 308 win is what comes to mind first. 7×57 and 7-08 rem should be fine too for a light stalking setup.

 

[Southern]

The 8x57mm has a relatively smaller case capacity relative to bore volume, so it works well in a shorter barrel, too.
My experience with the 8x57 and 8x60S is that they shoot most accurately with faster loads, using 100% case fill. So there is more recoil.

My lightweight 20-inch Winchester Compact in 7mm-08 is 6 lbs 14 oz with 1.5-5x scope.

Remington has built some Model Seven Mannlichers in 7mm-08 and .257 Roberts, using a laminated wood stock, so you could consider building a stutzen off a short action and a semi-inletted stock.

 

[deeangeo]

Never had any issues with deer, goat or fox falling over when shot with any of my Mannlicher stutzen’s.
.243win., 6.5x55SE or 6.5 x54MSch.
Though none of the older MSch rifles using the 160gn RN bullet have never been used at ranges greater than 120yds and mostly, under 100yds.

 

[WildBoarHunter]

Southern, I'm aware of the 8×57, have one Mauser rifle in my closet in this cal. Not a stutzen, but the barrel is just slightly longer than 20 inches. Many people say 8×57 is fine for shorter barrels. Myself had a lot of speed loss using 200 gr bullets, but almost no loss worth mentioning using 160 gr Fox bullets. Faster powder perhaps? Anyway, this thing made too much recoil for my taste. No longer using it due to some health related limitations. So would not recommend this cal for a light stalking rifle. However, a standard weight stutzen for close shots on driven hunts might just be the right tool for the job...

Deeangeo, what you described is exactly the intended use of the stutzen, short range hunting. I agree they are great for up to 100 yrds shooting. Don't get me wrong. I love stutzen rifles. Always wanted to have a Mannlicher Schoenauer in 6.5×54 MSch.

 

[Cj721 jess]

Hi ,just bought a Steyr Mannlicher Lexus in.243 ,has anyone got any idea what factory ammo theses rifles like Regards cjb721jess