The bullet or head debate goes on.

[Alantoo]

Alan, do you remember when you replied to my short clip of me making a long nail at an engineering firm
while I was waiting for the cut off saw to finish so I could go back to the turning work....?
Yes we have discussed it via pm but you did proceed to tell me in a roundabout way I was doing it wrong.

It matters not but it has the same tone of people complaining on how people describe something to how others see it....

Any way the hammer head never fell off and the nail passed inspection lol

Yes of course I do, you have never let me forget how much you resented my trying to help.

As you have raised the matter, yet again...

I don't know what tone you would have preferred....of course I tried to help, one craftsman to another....by passing on the guidance I had been given.

I could see you were holding the sledge in the equivalent way of shooting a shotgun off your left shoulder but pulling the trigger with your right hand. Yes it is possible, but as your striking video showed, unnecessarily difficult to achieve every angle. Even after twisting your body, your mate had to finish off the left side because you could not get to it.

When I was told after being seen to be doing it incorrectly, holding in exactly the same way as you in your video, it was embarrassingly in front an audience of the leading European blacksmiths, but I still didn't resent the help, quite the opposite.

My "roundabout" explanation to you came about because I misunderstood your initial reaction...instead of saying "That sounds interesting, I will try it next time" you told me you didn't need to do anything different, as a panel beater you knew how to use hammer. So presuming my description wasn't clear, I tried to explain it in other ways...my suggestion that holding it like your panel beating hammer would enable you to use the same muscle memory and coordination...I even including a video of some USA smiths demonstrating the technique.

I am still puzzled as to your continuing resentful reaction...I was just so grateful for the same information, as is everybody else I have ever shared it with. Every time I see the guy (Julian Coode from near Canterbury) in the forty years since, I thank him for it.

So yes, I do remember, and can see the similarities between your resistance to change and reluctance to use the word bullet.

Alan

 

[Utectok]

FFS five pages in 1 day..... what boring lives we must lead LOL

 

[Tim.243]

Yes of course I do, you have never let me forget how much you resented my trying to help.

As you have raised the matter, yet again...

I don't know what tone you would have preferred....of course I tried to help, one craftsman to another....by passing on the guidance I had been given.

I could see you were holding the sledge in the equivalent way of shooting a shotgun off your left shoulder but pulling the trigger with your right hand. Yes it is possible, but as your striking video showed, unnecessarily difficult to achieve every angle. Even after twisting your body, your mate had to finish off the left side because you could not get to it.

When I was told after being seen to be doing it incorrectly, holding in exactly the same way as you in your video, it was embarrassingly in front an audience of the leading European blacksmiths, but I still didn't resent the help, quite the opposite.

My "roundabout" explanation to you came about because I misunderstood your initial reaction...instead of saying "That sounds interesting, I will try it next time" you told me you didn't need to do anything different, as a panel beater you knew how to use hammer. So presuming my description wasn't clear, I tried to explain it in other ways...my suggestion that holding it like your panel beating hammer would enable you to use the same muscle memory and coordination...I even including a video of some USA smiths demonstrating the technique.

I am still puzzled as to your continuing resentful reaction...I was just so grateful for the same information, as is everybody else I have ever shared it with. Every time I see the guy (Julian Coode from near Canterbury) in the forty years since, I thank him for it.

So yes, I do remember, and can see the similarities between your resistance to change and reluctance to use the word bullet.

Alan

The thing is Alan I post pictures of varied jobs from fine work like making a horse bit you could hold in one hand to a 2 ton crane mat or a forestry trailer from scratch broken farm machinery needed asap all are signed off by the people who pay the invoices....
I get repeat work from customers as they are happy of the speed it is done also the jobs don't break. One thing I would never do is tell a tradesman like yourself as I know better, my good friend is a top pipeline welder repairing 22 illegal fuel line tapping's last year there is no way I would tell Mick how to run a root weld and hot pass.

Some people post pictures of broken rifle bolts as they dabble in reloading with no experience, only the invoice from the gunsmith lol

There are lots of little jobs that pop up on SD people ask for with a thank you post without people suggesting it could have been done differently.

At the moment I am working my through a (stalking related) R&D project which is going for testing, however with the amount of negative feedback over the term "head" I dread to think what the pickers would say to a new bit of kit.

My dear old Dad used to say if you want it done properly do it yourself...

 

[Klenchblaize]

Are we really gonna going to fallout fall out over a bit of head?

K

 

[Alantoo]

Again? You wouldn't let it lie.

One thing I would never do is tell a tradesman like yourself as I know better, my good friend is a top pipeline welder repairing 22 illegal fuel line tapping's last year there is no way I would tell Mick how to run a root weld and hot pass.

Would you be offended if Mick described an advantageous pipeline welding technique to you?

I make no claim as to being a top blacksmith, but I have seen a lot of them work around the world, and I have been doing it a long time. The technique I described stands or falls on its own merit. I took the trouble to share a detailed description of a blacksmithing hammer technique and the reasons behind that technique.

It was given by a blacksmith in order to help a panel beater with his blacksmithing. If a pipeline welder shared information to help me with my pipeline welding I would be delighted.

I can only say we view the sharing of technical information differently. I do not see it as a threat or find it an insult. I am delighted if someone tells me about their techniques. Even more so if I find them useful for my own work.

I have just looked up the thread you continue to be so upset about and see that my description of the process started off “You might find it more controllable if…” how do you find that offensive? How else could I have introduced it?

I am non-plussed.

Here is the thread in question...if you or anybody else can describe a better, guaranteed to be less offensive, way for me to have shared useful information, let me know and I will endeavour to alter my future blacksmithing information posts accordingly.

Alan

https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/not-swinging-the-lead….155632/#post-1421360

 

[Apthorpe]

We will be reloading in groans of powder next.

Grains /grams...who cares? Everyone knows what it means. Why are some people so pedantic? And how come they usually have all their digits and eyes intact?

 

[Hornet]

No such thing as bad "head"

 

[User00044]

No such thing as bad "head"

I beg to differ . "Too many teeth "?

 

[Hornet]

point taken

 

[User00044]

Again? You wouldn't let it lie.

Would you be offended if Mick described an advantageous pipeline welding technique to you?

I make no claim as to being a top blacksmith, but I have seen a lot of them work around the world, and I have been doing it a long time. The technique I described stands or falls on its own merit. I took the trouble to share a detailed description of a blacksmithing hammer technique and the reasons behind that technique.

It was given by a blacksmith in order to help a panel beater with his blacksmithing. If a pipeline welder shared information to help me with my pipeline welding I would be delighted.

I can only say we view the sharing of technical information differently. I do not see it as a threat or find it an insult. I am delighted if someone tells me about their techniques. Even more so if I find them useful for my own work.

I have just looked up the thread you continue to be so upset about and see that my description of the process started off “You might find it more controllable if…” how do you find that offensive? How else could I have introduced it?

I am non-plussed.

Here is the thread in question...if you or anybody else can describe a better, guaranteed to be less offensive, way for me to have shared useful information, let me know and I will endeavour to alter my future blacksmithing information posts accordingly.

Alan

https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/not-swinging-the-lead….155632/#post-1421360

Okay , clearly not my battle , but I understand how your comment could be deemed as offensive.

I was always tought that advice was sought and criticism was given . Whilst your intent may have been one of helpful advice it was clearly received as a criticism , sometimes it's difficult to gauge the tone of a comment when written as opposed to spoken .

It appears to me as though there have been crossed wires .

 

[Heym SR20]

Bullet is the term used by military and came into being when we moved away from from round ball or shot.

Legal definitions refer to bullets, missiles or projectiles.

Where the term Heads comes from - who knows.

I buy bullets and load these into cases to make a cartridge.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Surely the use of the term “head” was ensured from the day it became a requirement to differentiate between expanding and non-expanding ammunition on an FAC, and in particular when wishing to purchase just the shiny cylindrical component that travels down the bore prior to expanding upon impact? Technically known as missles, projectiles or bullets but never to be confused with ammunition if called a head. All the cowboy films I’ve seen have our hero either reloading his six-shooter with “bullets” or informing his colleagues that they are about to “run out of bullets.”

Or are we suggesting that very few firearms dealers understand what Jed Creedmoor actually wants when he rocks up at a Bisley trade show and slaps a little cash on the desk prior to demanding “five hundred .25 all-copper deer slayer heads and a tub of superlube for the Weekend”?

K

 

[Alantoo]

Okay , clearly not my battle , but I understand how your comment could be deemed as offensive.

Fair enough. I can only repeat my apologies to Tim as he obviously took it that way.

But in my defence I have spent the last forty years attending "forge-ins", conferences and masterclasses around the world. Weekend get togethers with other blacksmiths around a few fires and anvils...sharing ideas and techniques. It has thus always been part of our approach, we attend and share our one idea, and go home with 20 shared by others...not unlike the free exchange of information about stalking, shooting and reloading on here.

Most of my experience has been with people who wanted to share and or learn. I find it difficult to stand back when you know you can help.

I was always tought that advice was sought and criticism was given . Whilst your intent may have been one of helpful advice it was clearly received as a criticism , sometimes it's difficult to gauge the tone of a comment when written as opposed to spoken .

It appears to me as though there have been crossed wires .

I haven't heard that one before. It is interesting, if a bit bleak.

I suppose as a blacksmith, I took the fact that Tim posted a video of his forging meant that he was inviting comment and was open to discussion about the process shown.

But I take your point. I will in future try and resist the urge to share or engage anyone in debating the subtleties of blacksmithing technique unless it is specifically sought.

Alan

 

[Kevgun]

The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The chap that wrote the above was a house painter.

Winston Churchill (reasonably well known as a man of letters) was an accomplished brick layer.

Literate people aren’t necessarily dyspraxic. Tradespeople are very often highly literate.

The difference today (when compared to previous generations) is that there seems to be very little appetite for improving literacy generally. ‘Plain English’ has a lot to answer for as has the general dumbing down in the media and the coarsening of public discourse. Effectively a reverse meritocracy.

Years ago though we could be entertained by reading a book, but it’s channels and more channels of mindless American TV shows, or some prick with a lisp harping on about those nasty shooting community People.

Anyway it’s not heads because they have ears, eyes,nose and hair etc, it’s BULLET always has been and always will be, anyone who says Heads is just trying to be all modern and trendy.

 

[alberta boy]

Are we really gonna going to fallout fall out over a bit of head?

K

A buddy of mine and his wife did .

AB

 

[Stalker62]

Fair enough. I can only repeat my apologies to Tim as he obviously took it that way.

But in my defence I have spent the last forty years attending "forge-ins", conferences and masterclasses around the world. Weekend get togethers with other blacksmiths around a few fires and anvils...sharing ideas and techniques. It has thus always been part of our approach, we attend and share our one idea, and go home with 20 shared by others...not unlike the free exchange of information about stalking, shooting and reloading on here.

Most of my experience has been with people who wanted to share and or learn. I find it difficult to stand back when you know you can help.



I haven't heard that one before. It is interesting, if a bit bleak.

I suppose as a blacksmith, I took the fact that Tim posted a video of his forging meant that he was inviting comment and was open to discussion about the process shown.

But I take your point. I will in future try and resist the urge to share or engage anyone in debating the subtleties of blacksmithing technique unless it is specifically sought.

Alan

As a man who could not forge a lump of metal out of a horseshoe, I see no issue with offering advice/help/assistance/guidance to anyone on anything.

To be frank, I need it on most topics...

 

[User00044]

As a man who could not forge a lump of metal out of a horseshoe, I see no issue with offering advice/help/assistance/guidance to anyone on anything.

To be frank, I need it on most topics...

Agree totally , as do I .


Clearly I'm no Henry Kissinger , but hopefully these gents can agree to differ and move on . I would hate to think anyone with their wealth of knowledge wouldn't post for fear of retribution .

Moving on ....

 

[Foxyboy43]

I like to leave a little something
Great spot though!

Err. “dont” requires an apostrophe - to be used to indicate possession or substitution, in this case substitution for the omitted “o”; though strictly speaking (don’t) should not be used in the written form. Just saying….
Helmet on ….

 

[Foxyboy43]

SHELVES FOR FUKS SAKE

Errr, incorrect spelling of ****.
Ssssttttrrriiiiiikkke 1!

 

[User00044]

Fair enough. I can only repeat my apologies to Tim as he obviously took it that way.

But in my defence I have spent the last forty years attending "forge-ins", conferences and masterclasses around the world. Weekend get togethers with other blacksmiths around a few fires and anvils...sharing ideas and techniques. It has thus always been part of our approach, we attend and share our one idea, and go home with 20 shared by others...not unlike the free exchange of information about stalking, shooting and reloading on here.

Most of my experience has been with people who wanted to share and or learn. I find it difficult to stand back when you know you can help.



I haven't heard that one before. It is interesting, if a bit bleak.

I suppose as a blacksmith, I took the fact that Tim posted a video of his forging meant that he was inviting comment and was open to discussion about the process shown.

But I take your point. I will in future try and resist the urge to share or engage anyone in debating the subtleties of blacksmithing technique unless it is specifically sought.

Alan

It's not meant to be bleak , just making the point that even well intentioned advice can be easily misconstrued . It's also in no way intended as a criticism of yourself or Tim and like S'1962 , I am always appreciative of helpful, well intentioned advice.

Errr, incorrect spelling of ****.
Ssssttttrrriiiiiikkke 1!

Someone's intching for a fight !