The Cost of DSC1

2 day or 4 day courses the pass rate is the same, and and also the certificate

Accepted (I take it you have access to the pass/fail statistics for all courses ? ;) ).

Of course a 2 day course can be sufficient to get a good pass rate. However my personal view is that the extra time available on a four day course surely gives more opportunity for "education", group discussion, opportunities for sharing of experience etc, rather than just "teaching to the test" (which is still a considerable part of the 4 day course).

Both approaches are valid, but my recommendation would be that anyone able to find the time for a 4 day course should consider taking it.
 
Money factor first then time.
I'll go for which ever is the cheapest and closest.
Passing it is up to me and the amount of time I can put in before hand.
If all the SNH are looking for is a bit of paper then that's all they'll get.

Ed
 
It could be an 8 day course and you would be NO nearer in passing a dsc2, which is what the dsc1 is a stepping stone to the upper qualification.
If a pass can be done in 2 days thats the way, get out of the class room and into the field. Thats where the real learning starts.
After a pass (1) you have the basics to build upon.
So many do pass without shooting a deer or even have a rifle and immediatly email me to ask will I assess 2.
"NO" is the answer if they haven't shot some deer. I will mentor and train though.
Get dsc1 in a way thats suits you and then start the work towards a qualification that is worth something.
Just my opinion.
 
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Interesting thread. I am somewhat concerned regards the original poster's subsequent comment regards 'Parrot Fashion' - which implies at least a certain subjectivity behind the intent of the thread.

On that basis, I would respectfully refer people to our threads and website* regards what our course offer entails and includes. ( to save time - there are NO Kit Kats - though we do have a surplus of slightly soggy choc chip cookies from Scone to dispose of :roll: )

* ( edit )apologies to other providers, that was a bit conceited with hindsight :oops:; please read as 'providers threads and websites' to ensure they have fullest details. Sorry everyone!

However a neutral and accurate precis/ table of the various options out there is a useful idea and is to be applauded. As previous threads/ posts have touched upon, we are all different and it is a good thing that choice in terms of DSC1 approach exists as opposed to a 'one size fits all' situation. But that does risk people having to trawl through details to find what suits them.
 
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Had a peruse / catch up on the threads around SD that had come in whilst down at the Scone Bog Snorkelling championships. Realise better now the context of Mr Lewis's original post and within that his subsequent one - with which I had the 'wobbly'. After all my previous comments about leaping off the deep-end/ reading context carefully I believe I goofed in my interpretation - so my unreserved apology Mr L.
 
It would of been better if I had not put my 2p worth in on the differing length of courses teaching methods etc on this thread.

In the OP I was just trying to colate the costs and durations of different locations and providers and ways of getting DSC1

It always annoys me that £300 is thrown around as the minimum cost of DSC1 and all these vastly experienced stalkers have to pay £300 to sit on a course that will teach them nothing just to get a piece of paper when they could sit assessment only for less than half that price.
I have been to numerous level 1 courses and best practice events etc and have always learnt something.
 
Mr L

Sent you a PM. - typed whilst you were typing. I have one packet of only slightly soggy choc chip cookies salvaged - which for SD members anyway. Let's share and call it quits;)



Edit - text went bit goofy here-on in. Will have another go at typing when fresh in the morning.
 
It would of been better if I had not put my 2p worth in on the differing length of courses teaching methods etc on this thread.

In the OP I was just trying to colate the costs and durations of different locations and providers and ways of getting DSC1

It always annoys me that £300 is thrown around as the minimum cost of DSC1 and all these vastly experienced stalkers have to pay £300 to sit on a course that will teach them nothing just to get a piece of paper when they could sit assessment only for less than half that price.
I have been to numerous level 1 courses and best practice events etc and have always learnt something.

I agree with totally, I teach on DSC1's and I learn from the candidates as well as hopefully the other way around.

For a total novice three or four days is the minimum that you can get all the information in, I can not see how it can be done in two days. DSC1 is a fairly decent certificate to have but the old woodland stalkers certificate was a far better and much more comprehensive course.
 
Paul, still need u as a AW! The land I've got been over shot unfortunately! Once I can secure some beasts I'll hopefully get something sorted with you!
 
I don't mind how any provider chooses to structure their course BUT, my point was that with good pre course materials provided by a centre the candidates arrive on the course ready to learn about deer stalking because they are already quietly confident about passing the questions side of the assessment. I'm not talking about the bds manual either. I get a few guys a year that have never fired a deer rifle, speaking with them before the course you can always figure out their training needs and give them extra material support prior to the course if needed. We also get guys with learning difficulties that mean the bds manual is beyond their comprehension and 4 days in a class room environment will melt their brain!!

And yet, like I said, 2 days is plenty to get your candidates to pass providing you give them what they need to prepare for a course and talk with your candidates in advance. The idea that 2 day courses is somehow of lesser value to a candidate is a quite insulting.

My teaching priorities are real world as in getting, keeping and becoming a manager of better stalking. This obviously combined with a stalkers priorities of understanding individual responsibilities and how to fit in within the modern and changing deer stalking community. That's my 2p worth.
 
+1 Paul

I have discussed this subject with many people who have attended longer courses (4 days) and it seems that many of those I spoke to were of the opinion that the longer courses were OK but were 'padded out' with stuff - to make it seem better value.

Just because a course is longer, don't mean that it's any better value - just means that the learner has to take more days off work.

From the OP you can see that all the courses are not that different in price, so I would urge those looking at DSC1 to look at the VALUE of what is being offered, not the PRICE.

It is a fact that around 15% of the general public buy everything purely on price. The remainder buy on VALUE.

My opinion - as a provider of training courses.

Regards,
 
Mike,

I would suggest that 3 days of learning about deer and a day of testing costing £300 (£75 / Day) for arguments sake is far better VALUE than 1 Days teaching and 1 days assessment costing £300 (£150 / Day)

If you want to learn about deer then IMHO a 4 day course is better value

If you want a DSC1 certificate and dont want to know the reasons why the answers to the questions are the answers then a 2 day course is better value but dont go on a 2 day course and complain as one of the other posters that the course was not indepth enough.
 
I see your point Mr Lewis, and why you might think that. But I still disagree to a point. If the candidate need to take two days off work, spend on B&B, eating out etc., then the cost of the 4 day course soars way above the £200/day mark - making it poor value! (BUT NOT POOR TRAINING!)

One of the other issues that was raised to me about 4 day courses was there was too much information 'fired' at the candidates too quickly (not all learners learn at the same pace, or indeed the same way) so whilst the three days of learning might suit some people. It certainly doesn't suit everyone.

We prefer to let learners learn at their own pace, in their own home, using the information available in the manuals and other materials provided, whilst we give as much support, help and advice as needed.

In Hampshire we've run a course per month this year, and only had one failure on the written test. I think we've got the balance about right, which surely equates to good value IMO.

Regards,
 
Right - will have a go at trying to be more coherent ( relative term ) today.

If we can accept that different people want both different things and are likely to have different approaches to learning ( in widest sense ), so a range of provision options suits the market - courses do not stay up there if there is no demand.

Of course 'the market' is imperfect - its hard to have all the facts and there is enough fog and misunderstanding surrounding the DSC process as it is - without factoring in exactly what different providers offer. So there is an unavoidable element of uncertainty. A great aspect of a thread like this is to alleviate some of that uncertainty ( once details on opening post corrected - hint, hint ;) ).

But whilst a big step in the right direction, it just isnt as simple as extrapolating 2/3/4/7 day course equals more ( or less ) of quantity X - whether it be detail, wider learning, loss of income or deer data overload etc.

A two day course requiring no prior effort on the part of the student is not the same beast as a two day course with a suggested 4 week home study element. Nor for that matter a 4 day course which seeks to go through the majority of the manual - possibly by simply reading out what's there on the page or using dynamic teaching methods. Factor in one course may have 4 people on it and a seemingly similar one have 25 on it. We end up comparing not so much apples to oranges as apples to I pads. Trouble is, I don't have a ready answer to post here - open to ideas.

The problem is compounded if people make absolute ( and I appreciate completely genuine ) statements of comparison just from a headline. Ultimately the aim must be to assist people thinking about booking a DSC1 to make the best choice for them?

When people go on a course/ assessment and pass - for them, any deficiencies they felt about the learning process will tend to be forgotten in the process of achieving the goal. All good providers strive to elicit from attendees what worked, what didn't and what they'd do differently next time - and change accordingly. I don't know of any provider on here that doesn't do that and take the feedback really seriously. Not just talking about the 'end ex' tick box forms, but chatting direct with customers and politely digging a bit.

Not sure how providers can better communicate there 'product' - to detail everything would make for a snazzy gate-fold brochure 7 foot x 9. The envelopes will be a nightmare!

Taking up the individual issue, there is little to beat actually talking with a potential provider and asking the questions that matter to you. Happy to provide a distillation of the common ones and ones I'd suggest asking if there's an interest in that?

Matters such as Dyslexia, just not being good with books, extreme stress in large groups or with specific aspects - like the shooting test are very, very common concerns. Providers welcome the chance to tell you what they can do to help you.

There is also the personality side of the equation. Teaching is as much about the teacher as the content. Great core content delivered by someone you just don't get on with or put over in a way that is more effective than chloroform will not be as effective as Ok core material given in a way that enthuses. And I speak as someone famed for not only nodding off at the drop of a hat, but doing so LOUDLY :oops: Its why I'm usually sat alone at AW briefings...

I think Mike hit in on the head with the Value v Price comment.
 
Mr Lewis Please could you tell me how it is that if the four Day courses are so much better for your learning and understanding of deer management WHY can't they achieve the same results that Jelen Deer Services can with There 100% pass rate for 2012 in a two day course.
 
It is this simple.

Me, Mike and others might be 2 day heathens but we will let our pass rates and reviews speak for themselves ;)
 
I did write a response but the idea of this thread was to purely list the various course providers and costs and this is not the appropriate thread to discuss the merits of different providers.
 
I'm sorry MR Lewis but to say they are better courses by being four days and not two is discrediting a two day course. So surly a reply to as why these two day courses can achieve 100% pass rates is in keeping with your original post
 
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Mr Lewis Please could you tell me how it is that if the four Day courses are so much better for your learning and understanding of deer management WHY can't they achieve the same results that Jelen Deer Services can with There 100% pass rate for 2012 in a two day course.

Depends what is taught and what the candidate wants. I did a two day course where on the first day I learn't to repeat answers parrot fashion, and then shoot a bit, and then the next day takes the tests. All but one person passed, and in my opinion I could have known nothing about deer but still passed as it is simply remembering the answers to some multiple choice questions. This I would hope would be different on a four day course.

I don't think I learn't anything particularly that I couldn't have learnt taking the tests on the BDS cd and remembering the right answers, and then simply taking the tests myself.

It would be like taking an exam at school and being told only the questions and answers that will be in the exam and nothing else from the syllabus. That's not how schools/education works.

Yes I got a bit of paper and a badge, but did I really learn anything??
 
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