The Guardian on deer numbers and the re-introduction of wolves.

[Bowland blades]

Beggars belief they could even countenance it but these academic types are devoid of common sense.

Let’s introduce wolves but got forbid we clear the dykes and drainage that’s been neglected for years and causing flooding on account of the all the new houses all because some water voles or crap live there. Just moronic.

This happens when .. Too many well qualified idiots without real personal hands on experience are churned out by Univocities using staff that know no better themselves . The blind leading the blind . Like that Group who are going on about Lynx re-introduction to a totally changed environment.
If we dropped wild wolves in the most remote parts of the highlands, it would soon stop livestock farming out of buildings . Remember Wolves have evolved to hunt and kill beasts larger than Cows over vast distances, drop a few on the top edge 2 days later they could be in Inverness easy
I think these groups know its not going to happen but there must be some money floating about from daft doners to keep them at it ?

 

[Pete1774]

Britain’s surging deer population is causing an ecological disaster. I have a solution: wolves | George Monbiot

I think they need to run a pilot project first; Richmond Park and Wimbledon Common. That way far more of the public can observe first hand the delights of re-wilding.

 

[NP435]

Be under no illusion, beaver, wolf, bear are only the prelude species.

These Jurassic Park generationals won't be satisfied until dinosaurs are reintroduced! It's all a huge conspiracy to reintroduce alpha predators for the purpose of global population control by turning the human race into prey.

If you haven't done so, you need to read the recent thread on big game rifles:
An excellent article on big game rifles

Think about it, the lead rifle ammunition ban combined with only one .500 NE falling block rifle available for sale on guntrader - that's no coincidence.

PS. Does anyone know the HO recommended minimum calibre for Dromaeosaurids?

Yes .585 Nyati its real look it up

 

[Irish Bob]

He wrote a good article a while back on the demise of the river Wye through pollution and how useless Defra are.

What we can agree on is that the planet is being trashed, pollution, HS2 etc etc.

I think the environmental / shooting lobby need to look for a bit of common ground and compromise. He wants deer numbers down. Why not have a few wolves in certain areas that are monitored and controlled and a more friendly deer control policy everywhere else. Stalkers encouraged, respected and firearm ownership not seen as something to be reduced.

At the moment we have a situation that no one’s happy with.

 

[Husky]

Do you want wolves in your back yard ?

 

[Irish Bob]

Britain’s rivers are suffocating to death | Rivers | The Guardian

Water that should be crystal clear has become a green-brown slop of microscopic algae because of industrial farm waste, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Irish Bob]

I must admit I do think if the likes of Packham, Monbiot et al would turn their attention to the state of our rivers which in turn pollute our seas they would have a very very much greater benefit for all.

And the target of the pollution is easily identified- the various private water companies, property developers and large industrial farming like the US owned chicken industry

‘An utter disgrace’: 90% of England’s most precious river habitats blighted by raw sewage and farming pollution

Observer investigation reveals the shocking state of the country’s protected freshwater sites of special scientific interest

www.theguardian.com

Britain’s rivers are suffocating to death | Rivers | The Guardian

Water that should be crystal clear has become a green-brown slop of microscopic algae because of industrial farm waste, says Guardian columnist George Monbiot

amp.theguardian.com

 

[Irish Bob]

Do you want wolves in your back yard ?

If I lived in a really remote part of the country I would be fine with it.

Realistically we are only talking about a small number of places and a limited number of wolves.

 

[User00040]

...except it seems those hellbent on seeing a wolf just by popping on their expensive Cotswolds Outdoor gear and taking an hour's drive out into the country.

Plenty in the zoo, should put the rewilding mob in with the pack and see if it changes their minds.

Personally, I hope they re-introduce the whole lot, lynx, wolf, bear, sabertooth tiger and T-Rex... I'm going to need a bigger wall to mount all that!

 

[moonstone gsp]

What we can agree on is that the planet is being trashed, pollution, HS2 etc etc.

I don’t agree on this. I think if you are on the side of Monbiots then you would no doubt agree. I can’t think of any sensible reason why anyone with an once of common sense would welcome a call for reintroduction of wolves in this country.

 

[Irish Bob]

Tourism by introducing a limited number of an indigenous species into a wild area with no or no viable agriculture and having robust control measures in place.

It has already happed all over Europe and it highly likely to happen here too.

You look at which way the wind is blowing and adapt.

This approach seems at variance to what the majority in here want to do.

At the moment shooting is only going one way.

 

[VSS]

He wrote a good article a while back on the demise of the river Wye through pollution and how useless Defra are.

What we can agree on is that the planet is being trashed, pollution, HS2 etc etc.

I think the environmental / shooting lobby need to look for a bit of common ground and compromise. He wants deer numbers down. Why not have a few wolves in certain areas that are monitored and controlled and a more friendly deer control policy everywhere else. Stalkers encouraged, respected and firearm ownership not seen as something to be reduced.

At the moment we have a situation that no one’s happy with.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Good morning everyone, I hope what I have read is not implemented in your country, here the environmentalists have had the same brilliant idea to fight wild boars with the result that for the wolf, it is much better and easier to preface farmyard animals , a farm that supports itself with game, the moral of the story is that farmers have been brought to their knees, farm dogs and cats have disappeared, they have even arrived in cities like here in Rome, which prey and multiply in the first urban strip The project has drained a grant of 4 million euros from Europe and 1.5 million from the Ministry of the Environment to then subsidize a pool of pseudo experts who have done nothing for a decade now, with monthly salaries at six zeros for hypothetical scientific technical consultancies all failing, as usual in the lead ce wwf legambiente and other "environmental" associations that their purpose is only the banking environment I hope for you that this wicked project will be put aside also because it would lead to the closure of entire territories for years to ensure that they are not disturbed Best wishes

Thank you sir - an insightful post based upon real world experience rather than idiotic hypothesis from over-educated eejits! This post should be sent to anyone who promotes wolf introduction as the solution to any deer problem - the ratios of what would be required are frightening though taking the broad view perhaps this might support wolf being added to AOLQ - aye right!

 

[JTO]

Is the issue that there are massive amounts of land containing deer in the hands of a select few who just want to charge people big sums to shoot animals and aren’t actually managing the population?

I imagine I will get bashed for this reply lol!

Well, someone had to say it!

 

[willie_gunn]

I read the article and drafted a letter to The Guardian, but honestly what’s the point?

Monbiot lives near me in Oxford, yet when it comes to deer only ever opines about Highland estate owners who want to preserve the deer for stalking. He seems to think the UK’s deer problem is constrained to the Monarch of the Glen, despite mentioning in this article about muntjac and CWD.

It is estimated that the deer population in the UK will reach 2.4 million by the end of this year (see ‘Deer are destroying habitats’: push to get venison on to UK dinner plates) but perhaps only 1 million of these are estimated to be in Scotland (see The management of wild deer in Scotland: Deer Working Group report). Less than half of this number comprise red and sika deer, i.e. those which live in areas potentially suitable for wolves and lynx. So we are talking about perhaps 500,000 deer.

Whilst it may (and personally I am dubious) be possible to reintroduce apex predators to Scotland and other areas of semi-wilderness, if Monbiot is serious about controlling the growing deer population in the UK then he also needs to come up with an answer to controlling the problem of deer in urban, peri-urban and semi-rural areas.

Rather than endlessly complaining about deer in Scotland - where Government contractors are already culling thousands of deer each year - he never seems to mention the deer closer to his home, such as those to be seen nibbling away at plants in countless gardens around Oxfordshire and on the verges of the Oxford Ring Road.

I wonder why not? The answer, presumably, is that he is consumed more by class warfare than he is about deer welfare.

 

[Husky]

If I lived in a really remote part of the country I would be fine with it.

Cheshire/Shropshire is a remote place to me, why should people who live in someone else's idea of a remote area have wolves foisted upon them ?

 

[Ratel]

I'd back rewilding wolves. Keep all the idiots out of the hills

Brown bears from Kodiak Island, a much better idea. Just a dozen or so around Aviemore, Skye, Loch Lomond and the Galloway hills. They might even kill a few deer. Oh sorry I forgot Snowdonia, very remiss of me.

 

[Heym SR20]

If I lived in a really remote part of the country I would be fine with it.

Realistically we are only talking about a small number of places and a limited number of wolves.

I have lived with leopard, lion and crocodiles very close. And worked with local African farmers who have grown up alongside such animals. Mostly it’s a relationship of respect. Occasionally one gets a bit too cheeky and then its dealt with.

Most predators understand that tackling an animal that can kill or maim you is not good for your long term survival. Thus they go elsewhere.

If tackling livestock results in being shot, and there are plenty of other edible animals elsewhere then they go elsewhere.

There are now large predators in large parts of mainland Europe. Comments above about wolves in Belgium. The Benelux is densely populated and pretty intensely farmed. They have systems of management and if a farmer looses an animal he is compensated.

In Namibia they have a very good system in the communal areas. As a tourist you write down everything that you have seen and where you saw it. The lodges then pay the locals for the sightings of wild animals.

On the west coast of Scotland there is now a whole industry taking tourists out to watch the Sea Eagles. And other local businesses all benefit. But as far as I know local farmers don’t and that is why there is big resentment.

Frankly I would love it if the remote parts of the British isles had big predatory animals. Yes there would be incidents and some idiots would be removed from the gene pool.

Having such animals would just add hugely to the sense of the wild.

But we would also need to accept that at times we will have to shoot a few to keep them wild and in the wilds.

 

[Irish Bob]

We need to be solution not problem driven. Too many deer, we can help with that in a professional and measured way. No need to pay contractors we can provide trained competent people.

This sort of approach deals with George’s point.

You point out that whilst wolves might work in the arse end of nowhere like Cheshire and Shropshire it is unlikely to work in more populated areas. Here you need control via stalking.

But if George does want some wolves they have to be in suitable places and subject to effective control, like the deer.

George presented a problem and an unworkable solution. We have turned it into a solution and given him a bit of what he wants into the bargain.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Trained as a zoologist at Oxford and has been an investigative journalist on environmental matters all over the world.

George Monbiot - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Yet he apparently has the answer to address the influx of illegal refugees but his thoughts on the lack of affordable property in the West Country. for those who might work in the service industries. singularly fails to recognise that refugees need a roof over their head.

K