Thermal vs dog
- Thread starter Bonzo dog
- Start date
But we must first deal with the Rubbish bred to sell on line !The other good thing about good dogs is that two good dogs if left alone can produce lots more little dogs which can the be sold to recoup some of the costs.
Leave two thermals together and there is no chance little wiggly smelly piddly little bundles of thermals
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
Really ? Is alerting the main purpose of a dog ? Or even a significant one ?
I know the really well trained ones will indicate that they smell deer on the wind. V useful in woodland especially. But is that their main purpose ?
I suppose it depends on the stalking you do. I can see how a dog would be extra useful in woodland or areas where deer could be around any corner/any small hill- both detecting and retrieval.
But in more open areas a thermal has to be kind at spotting deer- but still frequently not as good at retrieval.
Happy to be corrected. I don't have a deer dog. But perhaps I'm missing out ?! :
Rutland lad
Well-Known Member
My two year old pet lab has done some blood tracking, and he’s found me a few deer. Trouble is he’s desperate to get on with it and wants to do it at full speed. So - last time I took him to track a missing muntjac shot by a mate, he got the tracking lead wrapped around a smallish tree. Before I could unwrap him, the little bast@#d had bitten/chewed through the tracking lead and was off ! At least he always comes back.
But here I am sitting listening to Ken Bruce and he’s at my feet. Having just lost his old mentor last month, it’s a pleasure to have him here.
But here I am sitting listening to Ken Bruce and he’s at my feet. Having just lost his old mentor last month, it’s a pleasure to have him here.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
I think you should do some swotting re hunting dogs and what they are capable of bb, truly I do after reading the above line.
Ah ha, herein lies the problem. Yes you are missing out far more than you realise. You have been a member since 2020 and since then there have been many many 1000`s of hunting dog discussions, have you not read any of them?
If you are not taking the pi$$ I suggest that you hook up with one of the gun dog members and go for a wander..be amazed.
Ever walked a 1000 acre stubble paddock with a gun looking for stubble quail with hawks soaring above? A bloke has as much chance as a snowball in hell of finding any birds. in such situations. The birds run the rows and wont lift for the gun (hawks) but one`s dog will advise as to where they are and on command will force a lift after alerting...extrapolate that to a 1000 acres or 20,000 of dense bush hunting (for UK think conifer forest in the Wicklow's) for deer...having the dog really is significant.
A brown hare in its seat hundreds of metres away, even over the hill out of sight will be known to the dog but not to us mere mortals even with the latest in T`s in hand. That hare could well be a boar a rabbit a fox or whatever the dog is there for.
We are mere pi$$ants when it comes to finding game ( dead or alive) in the thick when it comes to hunting without a dog.
The dog comes into its own when the T`s cant "see" or the battery flattens.
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
I won't pretend to know how little I know about dogs and their purposes- in and out of fieldsports. Although I'm not really into shotgun or driven fieldsports.
But specifically re stalking- which is the context of this topic- and how significantly thermals have made deer dogs redundant- could you elaborate ?
Was my speculation correct ? That they are v useful for retrieval in all situations- but their advantages over thermal are far less if a larger deer species is shot in an open field of short grass? Are they used in the Highlands and English Moorlands much ?
Just how useful is their detecting ability? Again in open grassland/moorland it must be less useful vs thermal- but in more built up areas of woodland they must be brilliant.
Learning more about these animals would be a great thing to do, should time allow
A demonstration of their abilities would be amazing- perhaps I will get a chance one day.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
You are in dreamworld bb. There is NO redundancy.
Suggest you go into the dogs dept onsite and start swotting.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
@billy_boyle_2010
bb, when you encounter deer (or other game) and shoot it in heavy fern and it disappears from sight under said fern or cover the T becomes the redundant one of the two. If the deer is still able to move under the fern (as they do) across a creek/gully it can make it tough to find the carcase even more so. Puppy dog will go straight to it.
bb, when you encounter deer (or other game) and shoot it in heavy fern and it disappears from sight under said fern or cover the T becomes the redundant one of the two. If the deer is still able to move under the fern (as they do) across a creek/gully it can make it tough to find the carcase even more so. Puppy dog will go straight to it.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
@billy_boyle_2010 another one for you bb. Following that stag up in that schitt with a dog is the way to go. Your dogs actions can be read that the deer is close, very close or not so pharkin close ha ha.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Really ? Is alerting the main purpose of a dog ? Or even a significant one ?
I know the really well trained ones will indicate that they smell deer on the wind. V useful in woodland especially. But is that their main purpose ?
I suppose it depends on the stalking you do. I can see how a dog would be extra useful in woodland or areas where deer could be around any corner/any small hill- both detecting and retrieval.
But in more open areas a thermal has to be kind at spotting deer- but still frequently not as good at retrieval.
Happy to be corrected. I don't have a deer dog. But perhaps I'm missing out ?! :
Once you and a hound work things out a hound is very very very good at alerting you to the presence of deer. Many times mine looks intently in a direction of woods or cover and hackles goes up. Then she looks at me to say stop you blithering idiot there is a deer over there. A few moments later out pops a deer from behind the trees.
Then of course is the look - go on shoot it. And you choose not to because it’s not part of the cull. And then she sulks.
And she reacts very differently if it’s a fox or she’s detected phaesants or woodcocks.
Finding deer after a shot is a very small part of what a good dog can do.
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
@John Gryphon
The videos you post certainly do show a need for a deer dog if those deer were shot. And I dare say you would have been able to find them more easily with a deer dog. In v dense foliage a thermal is far less useful I agree.
But you must recognise that in the total opposite of conditions- flat open fields bordering onto forests- with the wind blowing across- a thermal can scan very effectively where a dog would be less useful.
I'm not saying deer dogs are completely redundant or useless. I have never seen a really good one in action.
But I am saying that there are specific circumstances and conditons where they are less useful and thermal will detect as well or better.
The videos you post certainly do show a need for a deer dog if those deer were shot. And I dare say you would have been able to find them more easily with a deer dog. In v dense foliage a thermal is far less useful I agree.
But you must recognise that in the total opposite of conditions- flat open fields bordering onto forests- with the wind blowing across- a thermal can scan very effectively where a dog would be less useful.
I'm not saying deer dogs are completely redundant or useless. I have never seen a really good one in action.
But I am saying that there are specific circumstances and conditons where they are less useful and thermal will detect as well or better.
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
Yup I need to see a good one in action. I don't do much woodland stalking sadly. If I did- I would love to have a suitable dog.
But there are situations where a thermal is better IMO. Detecting in open areas or woodland borders where the wind isn't favourable
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Yup I need to see a good one in action. I don't do much woodland stalking sadly. If I did- I would love to have a suitable dog.
But there are situations where a thermal is better IMO. Detecting in open areas or woodland borders where the wind isn't favourable
In open areas good mark 1 eyeball that is well trained works very well. I have been out with individuals using thermals. I have seen deer long before they scan the area. A mark 1 eyeball is very good at picking up objects that it knows what to look for.
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
yup agreed. I shoot with an old stalker and his eyeball is incredibly well tuned. Im pleasantly surprised at how good I am at spotting deer compared to the average civilian but he's leagues ahead of me
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
In specific circumstances yes....but the battery in the dog never goes flat.
Plus the thermal goes in the cupboard when you go on holiday not the kennels. On the downside the thermal won’t love you every day and help eat your packed lunch
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
My dogs come on holiday with me lol.
StephenToast
Well-Known Member
Your dogs are immortal?
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
But the tail on the thermal never stops wagging.....
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
for a dozen or so years the survivors are yes, the non immortals were killed by boar`s or roos, two broke their necks, one broke her spine. That lot missed out on the Im on their gravestones but are indelibly imprinted in my mind.
There is a limit to immortality, even Achilles,Zeus and those other old wogs copped it.
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