I wouldn't really want to do the job without the dog or thermal. Often the dog can indicate deer before you can have a chance to see with a thermal. The dog can speed the recovery of dead deer. They will track and kill wounded deer. The thermal can enable you to spot deer quickly and efficiently. Before thermal spotters I am sure we walked past deer. They have changed the way in which I stalk. The thermal can be switched off and forgotten about until next required. Unfortunately the dog can't be forgotten about and often can't be switched off!
Thermal vs dog
- Thread starter Bonzo dog
- Start date
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
A dog is far likely to get me out of the house than a thermal.....
For the nose of a fox:
I shot two Roe deer in a flat stubble field on Monday at 6pm, both dropped on the spot, each at around 175 yards. The landowner did not want any dogs on his land so headshot or low neck shot for every deer, and I carried high-res thermals + night vision binos for locating the deer. This field was flat, with no bushes or anything. Sounds easy?
Took note of distance and bearing of each deer before each shot, but as darkness fell at 6:30pm, I was seriously struggling to find them.
The thermals could pick out every living deer, every rabbit, stoat, and even mice right across the field, but not a freshly dead deer.
After a further half an hour of walking a search pattern in the field as dusk fell, centred around my distance and bearing, with thermals glued to my eye, hands being shredded by the odd strand of blackberry thorn, I found the first one, laying in a slight rut with low vegetation on both sides, just enough to hide it from thermals unless one is aligned with the rut. Head shot had removed half the skull and sent an ear and section of skull several feet, so it definitely had dropped on the spot.
Perhaps a rut was why I could not find the other deer so walked backwards and forwards in search patterns for two more hours across that part of the field for the second deer, again thermals to my eye, nothing to be seen.
Lamenting that the deer tracker dog service has nobody anywhere near Edinburgh.
Then a fox came out, clear as day vis on the thermals allowed me to watch him out of interest. The fox did a beeline for a spot, then wandered off and returned 5 minutes later to the same spot. Sure enough at 8:30pm, the spot was a deeper rut containing my second Roe, 22kg gralloched.
So dumb human with thermals versus dogs / foxes, the animal wins hands down in ability to find the deer.
The fox also wins on the pain index: After dragging the deer and loading them, I wiped my hands on some grass in the dark, which tingled as I rubbed harder, before I realised the grass was 6" high stinging nettles. This added to the pleasure of a fair few thorn cuts from wandering around a field at night with thermals stuck to one's eye. So not only do the foxes win in ability, they also win on the lower pain index compared to thermals: if I had just watched the fox, I would not have run into as many thorns.
I shot two Roe deer in a flat stubble field on Monday at 6pm, both dropped on the spot, each at around 175 yards. The landowner did not want any dogs on his land so headshot or low neck shot for every deer, and I carried high-res thermals + night vision binos for locating the deer. This field was flat, with no bushes or anything. Sounds easy?
Took note of distance and bearing of each deer before each shot, but as darkness fell at 6:30pm, I was seriously struggling to find them.
The thermals could pick out every living deer, every rabbit, stoat, and even mice right across the field, but not a freshly dead deer.
After a further half an hour of walking a search pattern in the field as dusk fell, centred around my distance and bearing, with thermals glued to my eye, hands being shredded by the odd strand of blackberry thorn, I found the first one, laying in a slight rut with low vegetation on both sides, just enough to hide it from thermals unless one is aligned with the rut. Head shot had removed half the skull and sent an ear and section of skull several feet, so it definitely had dropped on the spot.
Perhaps a rut was why I could not find the other deer so walked backwards and forwards in search patterns for two more hours across that part of the field for the second deer, again thermals to my eye, nothing to be seen.
Lamenting that the deer tracker dog service has nobody anywhere near Edinburgh.
Then a fox came out, clear as day vis on the thermals allowed me to watch him out of interest. The fox did a beeline for a spot, then wandered off and returned 5 minutes later to the same spot. Sure enough at 8:30pm, the spot was a deeper rut containing my second Roe, 22kg gralloched.
So dumb human with thermals versus dogs / foxes, the animal wins hands down in ability to find the deer.
The fox also wins on the pain index: After dragging the deer and loading them, I wiped my hands on some grass in the dark, which tingled as I rubbed harder, before I realised the grass was 6" high stinging nettles. This added to the pleasure of a fair few thorn cuts from wandering around a field at night with thermals stuck to one's eye. So not only do the foxes win in ability, they also win on the lower pain index compared to thermals: if I had just watched the fox, I would not have run into as many thorns.
Last edited:
Man with a thermal cannot even be compared to the dog . You might get lucky with the thermal and it saves a long search in fading light and having to return at break of light to try again ( for a dead deer ) Chances of tracking down a wounded deer on its legs with thermal ? Remote in the extreme .
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
I have the book,its a great read and for you miserable bastards that dont like to spend money you can read it here for sfa..free!
btw there are rollicking tales of derring do hunting all types of game.
It wouldn't be the same if the title had "thermal" substituted for hound'
btw there are rollicking tales of derring do hunting all types of game.
It wouldn't be the same if the title had "thermal" substituted for hound'
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Or bailing one.
I understand people loving their dog but for me I can't understand why some places insist on a dog for a contract.
I can't see the point in a dog for my part-time job as a deer manager because from the few of hundred deer shot this last year I have lost one deer and I'm not going to worry about that ratio. To be brutally honest I don't want the all-round commitment of a dog because I can't take it to work with me on my other job and my misses also works and I also don't want the tie of a dog when we want to do something all day or go away. And if the dog is a tool for my business as a stalker it doesn't stack up all the dogs cost for a year to find one or two deer.
Just as a note I'm saying people having a dog as a pet/company/something to take shooting with them is at all bad it's just not for me.
I'm quite happy to be told I'm grumpy for my opinions on this subject.
I can't see the point in a dog for my part-time job as a deer manager because from the few of hundred deer shot this last year I have lost one deer and I'm not going to worry about that ratio. To be brutally honest I don't want the all-round commitment of a dog because I can't take it to work with me on my other job and my misses also works and I also don't want the tie of a dog when we want to do something all day or go away. And if the dog is a tool for my business as a stalker it doesn't stack up all the dogs cost for a year to find one or two deer.
Just as a note I'm saying people having a dog as a pet/company/something to take shooting with them is at all bad it's just not for me.
I'm quite happy to be told I'm grumpy for my opinions on this subject.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Can you talk to your thermal?
Can you tell it what a right royal *****your neighbour is?
Can you tell it that the wife is really effin annoying today
Can you pat it and tell it that its done a really good job
the list goes on and on lol.
Jon P
Well-Known Member
You definitely don't need a dog to kill Deer. However a trained dog is a lot more useful than a thermal for retrieving the one or two injured deer that are left out in the field’s suffering. - I have kept and worked dogs my whole life even before I started deer stalking so they are personally no extra bind for me as would have a dog anyway. But I would definitely not recommend some one gets a dog if they have no interest in them as it would not be fair in the dog either.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
The Inuit would agree with you, how many caribou can one get on a sled?
cookingfat
Well-Known Member
100% right answer
billy_boyle_2010
Well-Known Member
Stalking is certainly more fun with a dog. And I am surprised how flat an animal becomes when shot.
But aren't we confusing the initial purpose of a dog and thermal ?
A thermal is primarily a deer spotting tool. And a dog is mostly for retrieval.
Now a thermal can be used for retrieval- and a dog for spotting/scenting in woodland. But it's not their primary purpose.
I do also think it depends what species you shoot and the typical terrain. Large dead species on pasture land are easy to spot with a thermal. But the smaller species- through woodland or marshland- a thermal is more useful.
I think it also depends how you generally retrieve them. Standing on the top of your quad/car roof can give you a pretty good elevated position. But if you're by foot it's def harder to into a gentle dip.
But aren't we confusing the initial purpose of a dog and thermal ?
A thermal is primarily a deer spotting tool. And a dog is mostly for retrieval.
Now a thermal can be used for retrieval- and a dog for spotting/scenting in woodland. But it's not their primary purpose.
I do also think it depends what species you shoot and the typical terrain. Large dead species on pasture land are easy to spot with a thermal. But the smaller species- through woodland or marshland- a thermal is more useful.
I think it also depends how you generally retrieve them. Standing on the top of your quad/car roof can give you a pretty good elevated position. But if you're by foot it's def harder to into a gentle dip.
If the deer had got up, then the thermals would have picked her up instantly as it was a flat field with big barren areas and no growth more than a foot high. In this case, both deer were dead on the spot, and although distance is right, it takes only a degree off on the bearing to find one is standing next to the deer unable to see it if it has fallen into a hole.
I agree with you entirely though in forestry: dogs can track, thermals are useful but cannot. In this case they could not even locate a largish deer in almost flat field.
When my daughter moved out, our dog (her dog, I bought it for her originally), went too, so longer to get the dog over. On Monday, I was thinking which stalking friend with a dog do I disturb, and was just about to ring one when that fox appeared.
I have been thinking about one of those thermal drones ... pretty price tag on them though and the thought of flying an expensive drone at night and losing it puts the dampers on doing that.
Last edited:
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
God no, not at all. The dog is there to alert you to the presence of the quarry and then to find or help find it.
Everlong
Well-Known Member
My Lab know ALL my secrets!!
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
That`s a surety with all dog owners and they look at you at times that one would swear "that pharkn dog is reading my mind ha ha"My Lab know ALL my secrets!!
Get another dog IMHO . Thermals are brilliant for fast location of live deer in and around cover but they dont even compare to a dog when you cannot see where the animal fell . Personally if someone called me for the use of my dog on a lost Beast i would be glad of it, as would the dog ! Humans are totally rubbish at finding deer and my last dog had a certain look he gave me it was like " you seriously couldn't find that one ?! " Night culling would be a total nightmare
Similar threads
