tight as a ducks ****

[The Seeker]

I'm relatively new to this so please excuse my ignorance, I have read many many posts to learn as much as possible but the way I see it it's all too complicated, so I Book my stalk say £60.00 (that's the payment for the guy who's taking me out) I've read that then some guides will charge me as soon as I pull the trigger wether I miss or not (why?) and then I buy the meat at what ever agreed per kg (fair enough). Excluding trophy heads (which I have no interest in) it's then generally expected to tip on top of this. Seems a lot of different fees why can't it be one fee and that would make it easier to book with that guide or not dependent on what you can afford?
I too (in my naivety) struggle to see what the keeper does over and above the £60.00 fee as this is a wild animal?

Be gentle....

 

[Dalua]

I wonder whether the tipping thing is a semi-feudal hangover, the ongoing survival of which is encouraged by the masters of shooting industry because it support ongoing underpaying of their employees.

Guests at 'big house' shoots would have tipped the keeper just as they would have tipped the butler of the house, or another servant attending them personally, where they were staying; because it was the custom to tip other people's servants if they were doing work for your immediate comfort rather than that of their employer; although this habit was not considered above critisism, particularly if the tips were extravagant. http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=FB0917F639541B728DDDA90994D1405B848CF1D3

This would of course be reciprocated, as it were, when your host became in turn your guest.

I have never stalked on a 'pay per stalk' basis with a stalker who takes people out on assorted bits of ground belonging to other people, and who might refer to me as a client; so I've no idea whether such a person would expect a tip, but the use of the word 'client' would to me suggest not.

The unfortunate thing is that you have no idea whether not tipping, or tipping inadequately, will result in subsequent outings being for some reason less productive as a result.

On the whole, tipping is one of those touchy social subjects which fill me with apprehension.

 

[flyingfisherman]

I'm relatively new to this so please excuse my ignorance, I have read many many posts to learn as much as possible but the way I see it it's all too complicated, so I Book my stalk say £60.00 (that's the payment for the guy who's taking me out) I've read that then some guides will charge me as soon as I pull the trigger wether I miss or not (why?) and then I buy the meat at what ever agreed per kg (fair enough). Excluding trophy heads (which I have no interest in) it's then generally expected to tip on top of this. Seems a lot of different fees why can't it be one fee and that would make it easier to book with that guide or not dependent on what you can afford?
I too (in my naivety) struggle to see what the keeper does over and above the £60.00 fee as this is a wild animal?

Be gentle....

I agree that fees for the shot, the stalk, the head, the meat damage and/or the carcass is waaay too complicated.

Dalua is right when he basically says its a touchy social subject. If a mate was to take me out stalking or shooting then i would return the favour. If you go out on a paid stalk then its nice to show gratitude.. how you do it is upto you.

 

[Hornet]

I'm relatively new to this so please excuse my ignorance, I have read many many posts to learn as much as possible but the way I see it it's all too complicated, so I Book my stalk say £60.00 (that's the payment for the guy who's taking me out) I've read that then some guides will charge me as soon as I pull the trigger wether I miss or not (why?) and then I buy the meat at what ever agreed per kg (fair enough). Excluding trophy heads (which I have no interest in) it's then generally expected to tip on top of this. Seems a lot of different fees why can't it be one fee and that would make it easier to book with that guide or not dependent on what you can afford?
I too (in my naivety) struggle to see what the keeper does over and above the £60.00 fee as this is a wild animal?

Be gentle....

The client who shoots and wounds a deer should in my opinion be charged as the stalker/keeper will have to search and locate, then despatch and recover the animal,but 30 quid ect at the shot on top of your fee is a load of c--p IMHO it is just a backdoor tax on recreational stalkers,and I personally would not go out with someone placing this condition on a stalk for me thankyou

 

[digger9523]

I'm not long back from my hols up in Scotland. Didn't go stalking, but these are the stalking/shooting rates on the place we stayed. Tipping is encouraged.

STAG STALKING (1st July to 20th October): The price for stalking a stag, with stalker, rifle, ammunition, etc inclusive, is £320. In the event that the stalker does not take the client within shooting range of a stag, the price for a day out is £100. The form is to give the stalker a gratuity for a successful day in the order of £30 - £40 per gun. The estate is rugged and you do need to be quite fit. You would also have to help the stalker drag the beasts off the hill as far as the argocat. (If you wanted a ghillie to help drag beasts off the hill, this would cost another £60 per day - providing we can find one at that time). The venison remains the property of the estate. If you would like to take the antlers home, we will arrange for the stalker to cut and clean them for a fee of £20. Prior to going on the hill the stalker will take the client to a target to check that the client can hit a six inch circle at approximately 100 yards. The choice of stag to kill is at the entire discretion of the stalker. It may be possible to shoot more than one stag in a day if you wish; thus two guns may go out together with the stalker and up to two others may accompany them. In October it may be possible to have a second stalking party out on the hills. Please enquire if you wish us to arrange this.

HIND STALKING (21st October to 15th February): The cost of hind stalking is £120 per day for one gun and £170 per day for two guns (and up to another two persons walking along) with one stalker. It may be possible to get a second stalker so that another party could go out at the same time. The venison remains the property of the Estate. We supply the guns and ammunition. The stalker takes the guns to the target prior to going on the hill to check that they can hit a six inch circle at about 100 yards. The form is to give the stalker a gratuity for a successful day in the order of £30 - £40 per gun. The estate is rugged and you do need to be quite fit. You would also have to help the stalker drag the beasts off the hill as far as the argocat. (If you wanted a ghillie to help drag beasts off the hill, this would cost another £60 per day - providing we can find one at that time).

CLAY PIGEON SHOOTING: The cost of clay pigeon shooting is £30 for a couple of hours, for how ever many of you wish to do it, with stalker, gun, trap and ear protectors supplied plus the cost of clays and cartridges (clays are £15 for a box and the cartridges are £5.50 for 25 ) In addition to this the stalker would like a gratuity, say £20 or £25 for the morning.

 

[basil]

I think this thread is starting to put our sport into a negative light.
Why should anyone be expecting gratuity at all?
Sorry but being a guide, ghillie or whatever is no different to any other job. You chose it.
A paramedic doesn`t expect a tip because they saved someones life and many of us couldn`t do or wouldn`t want to do their job.
Your clients had a great time and hopefully will be back.............................unless they`ve read this thread.
basil.

 

[Chanty Wrassler]

If you go out on a paid stalk then its nice to show gratitude...

At the end of the day that is a commercial arrangement. In most commercial arrangements the buyer would expect, if anything, that the seller might offer a rebate or a discount for prompt payment; in many cases the buyer would expect the seller to return a little of the purchase price as "luck money"

 

[Chanty Wrassler]

STAG STALKING (1st July to 20th October): The price for stalking a stag, with stalker, rifle, ammunition, etc inclusive, is £320. In the event that the stalker does not take the client within shooting range of a stag, the price for a day out is £100. The form is to give the stalker a gratuity for a successful day in the order of £30 - £40 per gun.

So the client is to pay an additional £220 if the stalker does his job and gets the client within striking range of a stag, but the "form" is to give the stalker another £30 - £40 on top.

You would also have to help the stalker drag the beasts off the hill as far as the argocat. (If you wanted a ghillie to help drag beasts off the hill, this would cost another £60 per day - providing we can find one at that time). The venison remains the property of the estate.

So the client is required to help retrieve someone else's property, or pay another £60

CLAY PIGEON SHOOTING: The cost of clay pigeon shooting is £30 for a couple of hours, for how ever many of you wish to do it, with stalker, gun, trap and ear protectors supplied plus the cost of clays and cartridges (clays are £15 for a box and the cartridges are £5.50 for 25 ) In addition to this the stalker would like a gratuity, say £20 or £25 for the morning.

£15 per hour to hire a gun, trap, and ear defenders, then pay a wee bit over the odds for clays and cartridges, and then be expected to pay the guy working the trap £10 - £12.50 per hour

 

[pete evans]

when I was a student I got landed in the situation where I was obliged to pay a huge tip. A friend from hong kong had taken several people out for dinner in the states when at a conference. I was left in the restarant after most of the party had drifted outside.

so the outcome of this was the waitress gets a lower tip than she was hoping for, I end up paying much more than I can afford for dinner and my very generous friend is critisised for being tight. Brilliant.

Dont confuse lack of tip with lack of gratitude. If you want more ask for more as payment up front and nobody gets disapointed or put in an awkward possition.

 

[Z-Plex]

Sorry but being a guide, ghillie or whatever is no different to any other job. You chose it.

I think the point is, in certain jobs - taxi drivers, hairdressers, hotel workers, waitresses, golf caddies, ghillies, keepers... just a few off the top of my head - it is expected that tips will form part of your remuneration. Like it or not, that's just the way it is. Employers factor that in when determining what wages they will offer, employees know they will be able to make up what is often a very low wage with tips. The thing that most of these jobs have in common is that you are providing a very personalised service, and by giving the tip directly to the person who's provided it you are preventing it being diverted by the company or its accountants.

And just to present the other side of the coin, many stalking estates are controlled by accountants to whom every pound is a prisoner. It's not unusual for a stalker to have to supply his own rifle, scope, binos, dog, and other essentials out of his own pocket. Far from paying for foreign holidays, most of the tip money for these guys goes towards buying stuff that their employer should be providing anyway.

It's not a perfect system, but that's the way it is, and if you don't want to pay a tip then don't book any stalking anywhere where it's expected. As has been said previously, if it's made clear at the time of booking it's easy to deal with.

 

[RICK O SHEA]

If these five guys have paid for the outing/outings then

1 shared the fuel costs to get there
2 beer/drink money
3 few quid for some dinner
4 extra amunition/supplies just to be on the safe side
5 then purchased nearly all the venison and even at dealers rates thats going to be a good few quid.
Lets say they purchased 10 fallow prickets at 70 quid each and 2 muntjac at a tenner each i will let you do the maths

Looks like the poor tip probably resulted from them having no money left if they were guys with just average jobs.
ATB
RICK O SHEA

 

[Cougar]

I think this thread is starting to put our sport into a negative light.
Why should anyone be expecting gratuity at all?
Sorry but being a guide, ghillie or whatever is no different to any other job. You chose it.
A paramedic doesn`t expect a tip because they saved someones life and many of us couldn`t do or wouldn`t want to do their job.
Your clients had a great time and hopefully will be back.............................unless they`ve read this thread.
basil.

Well said and very true, just because everyone has a different opinion shouldn't lead to us putting each other down. Any anti's looking at this and there will be some, will be loving it and this may come back to bite us in the arse.

Matt

 

[digger9523]

So the client is to pay an additional £220 if the stalker does his job and gets the client within striking range of a stag, but the "form" is to give the stalker another £30 - £40 on top.



So the client is required to help retrieve someone else's property, or pay another £60



£15 per hour to hire a gun, trap, and ear defenders, then pay a wee bit over the odds for clays and cartridges, and then be expected to pay the guy working the trap £10 - £12.50 per hour

That's what it says in their rates. They've got a 3 year waiting list for stags apparently.

 

[kieran222]

I have booked my first stalks with two different people later this month. One of them is a flat rate (unlimited does included in the price) and the other is a similar rate with a charge of £50 for each doe on top. I assume by this that where you are being charged extra for each doe the guide is not expecting a tip as well.

Like so many others have already said, I will tip where appropriate e.g. for meals out but I have on numerous occasions asked for a service charge to be removed from my bill because I wasn’t happy with the service. I think that if you ask for a price for a stalk and the tip is not specifically mentioned than it is then at the discretion of the client and from the feedback that I have had in my previous thread this would be around 15% as per the catering industry (for good service). However in this case I think that given the success of the stalk and the original price I would have given more than the 15% as their average was 1 beast per person per stalk which from what I hear is better than expected. I would be thinking about my next booking.
But then again I haven't done any stalking yet!

 

[Brithunter]

Hmmm I wonder how many are declaring their tips as income? After all income is taxable.

Sadly it's the expense of Red Stalking using normal estates that meant I never got to try it. It was cheaper to fly to America and hunt Whitetail Deer for 10 days than stalk two days in Scotland .................. now something there is not right.

 

[limulus]

And when you get there you're not expected to tip the captain........

 

[Brithunter]

And when you get there you're not expected to tip the captain........

Actually I would liked to have been able to tip the pilots as we landed in Cincinnati is a horrendous storm, snow and very high winds the plane came in almost sideways yet despite the roller coaster ride the touch down was smooth. A remarkable job I thought.. I did thank the cabin crew as I disembarked. The take off in the connecting flight to St Louis in a regional jet................... Think big Lear jet was exciting. Once the plane lifted off it veered sideways and had to bank to fight the side winds until we climbed out of it. I do not like roller coasters and that take off felt like and reminded me of one . Thank fully the return was much calmer .

 

[vincy]

when i used to take guests out i wouldn't expect nothing but a nice pint afterwards as a thank you for a good day why should they tip they've already paid for the pleasure to shoot and you have already been paid too plus if its a case of you wanting more money put the tip you expect on top of your price and see how many guest's you get then stalking is not like it used to be just for the old boys club stalkers come from all walks of life now and most are on a tight budget

 

[kallco]

kallco

having done a fair bit of stalking and gameshooting with clients both british & European i found the best way was to set rules at start
on gameshooting they had paid for the shooting and i told them i did not expect tip
succesful stalk full stalking fee
unsuccesful stalk half fee. No medal heads. Unless agreed beforehand allso fee agreed i did not expect tip and made that plain at outset
but if they had a good time 98 percent of people would give you tip anyway. I would not expect anything for driving them to high seat
On the other side quite a few stalkers are not well paid. And for what these lads got i do not think many people on this site would have given that tip

 

[venison16]

why should you tip keepers/stalkers i dont get tipped for doing my job ?????