Tried lead free

[Magnificent 7]

Well this morning I bought 2 boxes of lead free bullets some Winchester and RWS tongue them a try and tbh they were shocking I use a piece of ply 18 inch x 12 inch amd normally draw a 2 inch black dot in the middle of a sheet of paper well groups of 4 and one bullet from each group hit the paper only one of those was anywhere near i also tried a 4 shot group using my normal lead round and they as expected all thumbnailed anyone shed any light on this is this normal I worked a load up for my 300 win mag and even working up a load they all would of done well within the inch I tbh never tried shop bought offerings for that I just bought some barnes and knocked a few up ive not the time to work up a load for the 308 at the moment hence buying a few to try and tbh its always handy knowing you can if need be buy something that works

 

[JMikeyH]

What was the copper projectile length and what is your lead projectile length? With copper having a lower density, to get the same weight you must add length to the projectile which can require a faster twist to stabilise the bullet. There's other variables too but that is what I'd suggest checking

 

[Magnificent 7]

Haven't checked there just shop bought ready mades

 

[Heym SR20]

Its not lead free thats the problem, it’s choice of bullet in your rifle. Drop down a bullet weight or two.

Here are typical results I get with RWS HIT loads in my 7x65r and 130gn Fox in my 7x57 both groups shot from prone over a rucksak at 100m.

Copper is less dense than lead, hence you can get bullets that too long for your rifling twist. And you get the same effect with long lead bullets - the 6mm Remington won’t stabilise 100gn bullets, my 243 Win will stabilise flat base stuby 105gn Geco bullets, but won’t stabilise longer boat tailed ballistic tip 100gn lead bullets from Hornady.

and different velocities etc different loads will shoot to a different point of aim. With any new cartridge / load etc I would always check zero at 20 metres - ti make sure they are on paper. In my 7x65r the RWs HIT were several inches away compared to my 139gn lead load.

 

[JMikeyH]

What weight are they? Same as your lead round?

 

[Magnificent 7]

150 grain i had in my head I wanted 130 grain but was talked into opting for 150 grain by lad in gun shop who said they were as fast as the lead offering and looked in his opinion to be better aero dynamically looking than the 130 grain geco

 

[finnbear270]

150 grain i had in my head I wanted 130 grain but was talked into opting for 150 grain by lad in gun shop who said they were as fast as the lead offering and looked in his opinion to be better aero dynamically looking than the 130 grain geco

And his qualification in ballistics was?

 

[JMikeyH]

Yeah, sounds like a stability issue. Lad in the gun shop might not have the best understanding of copper projectiles. I don't claim to either but an elementary understanding in rifle twists is enough to know better. Drop down a bit in weight, the problem isn't that the bullets are copper but that the ones you have currently are not suitable for the twist in your barrel

 

[Magnificent 7]

And his qualification in ballistics was?

I don't know i must ask him next time i see him

 

[finnbear270]

Drive them fast, & as said by others drop down in weights.

 

[Magnificent 7]

Yeah, sounds like a stability issue. Lad in the gun shop might not have the best understanding of copper projectiles. I don't claim to either but an elementary understanding in rifle twists is enough to know better. Drop down a bit in weight, the problem isn't that the bullets are copper but that the ones you have currently are not suitable for the twist in your barrel

I tbh should of just stuck to my guns pardon the pun and gone lighter understand the zero may be out as someone else has stated whilst I'm no expert ive tried varying ammo in various rifles and ok a slight adjustment needed never completely of the board but im not saying its not possible id agree with the thought of a stability issue

 

[Magnificent 7]

Anyone want some 150 grain lead free garbage lol

 

[glasshalffull]

Or do what the duck men do around these parts, keep a pocket for the steel shot and a larger one for the lead

 

[Liveonce]

Or do what the duck men do around these parts, keep a pocket for the steel shot and a larger one for the lead

I do hope not as this lack of self discipline and non compliance is exactly why we risk a total ban on all lead shot and ammunition.

 

[Magnificent 7]

I do hope not as this lack of self discipline and non compliance is exactly why we risk a total ban on all lead shot and ammunition.

We don't have to comply with any law yet my shot game is used by me and friends and family i was just trying it out tbh I personally can't see the problem.if your consuming it yourself is there actually any know case of anyone being poisoned from eating lead shot game ive even yet to poison my dogs with it and they eat loads of bullet damaged meat and bones

 

[Magnificent 7]

Just sat here thinking and ive possibly another problem to add to the mix my 308 has a short barrel so I'd say that wouldn't help either

 

[ashray]

good afternoon ,stick with your lead bullets until/if we are force to use non lead.

 

[Muir]

That, and get on this new punctuation fad that people are using these days.~Muir

 

[Magnificent 7]

That, and get on this new punctuation fad that people are using these days.~Muir

Does punctuation increase your grouping if not im not all to interested but thanks for your concern it means a lot.

 

[Heym SR20]

We don't have to comply with any law yet my shot game is used by me and friends and family i was just trying it out tbh I personally can't see the problem.if your consuming it yourself is there actually any know case of anyone being poisoned from eating lead shot game ive even yet to poison my dogs with it and they eat loads of bullet damaged meat and bones

So please explain the findings within this article https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ajh.25731 which shows a clear correlation between higher levels of heavy metals in the blood and leaukaemia - we are not talking poisoning levels, but quite low at 25 nmols/lt of for lead.

I am working with a team who have taken the above research are now developing cancer treatments on removing the low levels of lead. Early results are remarkable, and rather reinforce the wider science that any level lead is harmful.

To put it on a scale, vintage man was at 1 on lead in the body, industrial man is at 1000 and poisonous is at 4000. The cancer levels are at 1500.

And lead accumulates. Non of the study cohort had any more exposure than normal environmental - they were not working with lead per se. So any time you ingest lead, a fraction will be dissolved in stomach acids and adsorbed, and once there it cannot removed without drugs.

I took the same view that lead was not that bad until I started working with the above group.