Trophy Hunting

[Dunwaters]

Management is ok, trophy hunting isn’t really. Trophy hunters have no place in hunting in my view, it has nothing to do with hunting apart from killing for wall space fillers.

The difficulty here is that trophy hunting pays for ‘management’ and protecting against poachers in African countries, that should not be the case, but is. What is needed are subsidies in these regions to replace the income generated from trophy hunters

All hunting is trophy hunting to some degree because we all take home the memory of the day and the experience with us.
Thats the “trophy”, the horns and hide are merely souvenirs to help remind me of the day and are displayed primarily to trap the unwary into asking me what that is and where I got it, which gives me the excuse to launch into a stream of anecdote and reminiscence that can last for hours.
Your proposed bill is banning the importation of souvenirs.
Personally I place my trust in EU membership and the doctrine of free movement of goods and services therein.

 

[HonestJohn]

To elaborate - I perfectly understand the way Africa works, and I also appreciate the input into preservation that 'trophy hunting' can deliver, even down to the basic feeding of local people and helping them raise their kids with food available, etc. I get it...I understand that many 'trophy' animals are shot as part of a plan and many are not 'biggest is best', but done in the right way for the right reasons, I get it!

However, I have also seen some of the 'trophy rooms' in large US homes, I don't want to name states, but Texas is one (a good friend has a ranch there). Some of these places are simply lined with large trophies of every imaginable african species, in their prime mostly, simply a show room. I doubt much of the business PH's generate come from the UK when you look at the footprint of US trophy hunters are,,,and I suspect, from what I've seen, a LOT of this business is about the trophy, not any sort of preservation.

after all, if it is about the experience, take some pictures, some memories, and leave the trophy/antlers behind, why bring them home? If you told me tomorrow I can continue my deer stalking, but never take a head home again, I wouldn't give two shjites, they don't matter to me, the meat, and having culled the right beast is the trophy itself.

I also recall an american hunter (from Texas too actually), who used to come to the highlands on an estate I used to stalk. He brough a stalker with him, rented the estate Argo, and came for 20 days, only wanting to shoot 'big' 10-12 pointers. After such a visit I came to the estate to find a cull stag..what I found was sickening,, a larder room heaving in all the largest stag heads from the entire 10,000 acre ground, argo tracks over every inch of the land, through peat hags, etc. all turned over..not a stag or deer in sight, not for years after..the next year I believe it was a wash out for him (obviously), and then he hasn't been back, but likely moved on to destroy another estate en lieu of USD $$$.

If trophy hunting/import of trophies is banned, it does not mean hunting abroad is banned, but it does separate those hunting for experiences and those hunting for trophies, and that, can only be a good thing.

 

[Leec6.5]

As i have said before maybe you need a new hobby - your passion and love for it appears to have gone and you are just polluting our waters.

20 years is nothing actually - maybe you came into it without understanding and appreciating the basics ?

Your little crusade will not save trophies nor will it save shooting/stalking or publicity owned guns.

The sooner you get your head around that the better!

Put your efforts into something more constructive like knitting or tapestry.

 

[Basil H]

There is a lot of ignorance to be seen here and not a little rancour. For an idea of the conservation and economic benefits (trophy) hunting can bring take a quick google at Amy Dickman twitter, and Community Leaders Network of Southern Africa also twitter with some informative links. You don't have to register. As well as habitat benefits, the preparation and shipping of "trophies" that you or I might shoot on that trip of a lifetime - not record stuff - provides a lot of work for people in the SADC countries. Some of this is essentially private enterprise such as in RSA, while other states, eg Namibia, have more mixed systems. It is sad to see Chris Packham, who is a zoology graduate, following the populist line on this rather than the science.

 

[Tazz]

My local MP is Henry Smith unfortunately!
I wrote to him before and got a reply that basically said “I don't care what you say scumbag, stick your letter up your a***”
But not in them words.

That sentiment though

 

[HonestJohn]

There is a lot of ignorance to be seen here and not a little rancour. For an idea of the conservation and economic benefits (trophy) hunting can bring take a quick google at Amy Dickman twitter, and Community Leaders Network of Southern Africa also twitter with some informative links. You don't have to register. As well as habitat benefits, the preparation and shipping of "trophies" that you or I might shoot on that trip of a lifetime - not record stuff - provides a lot of work for people in the SADC countries. Some of this is essentially private enterprise such as in RSA, while other states, eg Namibia, have more mixed systems. It is sad to see Chris Packham, who is a zoology graduate, following the populist line on this rather than the science.

Surely it doesn't matter to a hunter with their moral compass set in the right direction, as to whether or not they may be able to bring a skull and antlers back with them?

if that's the deal breaker, there's something wrong and the wrong people are being attracted by the outfitters/PH's, etc.

it 'is' funny to see the difference in Scotland between paying 'stag' guests, and paying 'hind' guests..two different schools often (not always, but often)...stag guests are wealthier, more interested in trophies and less inclined to do the work. Hind guests seem to be less well off, more clued up, and more willing to 'get in' and do the work...

I'd rather surround myself with the 'hind' stalkers personally, and I've never met one who brought a head back to his house to mount! ..at least, not yet.

 

[Basil H]

Triggertrix, this issue is about conservation of habitats and species, as well as rural economies, across many countries. If you can not see beyond your personal morality then fair enough but try and see the big picture. Professor Dickman, referenced above, is a vegetarian but she takes a pragmatic view of hunting's role in her work with WildCRU. For the record, I have hunted throughout a long life (deer and plains game only in the second half) but have never owned a trophy of any sort. However I don't judge those who do. It's the rich chaps who stalk stags who facilitate the winter hind stalking I loved when I still had functioning knees !

 

[kenbro]

How about if all the meat from the “trophy” goes into the human food chain? -
who going to fund these subsidies to replace the income from trophy hunting ?

John P;
If is the operative word here.

Different scenario, but apparently while deer left to rot where shot by contractors. If that went into the food chain……
Ken.

 

[Namman]

John P;
If is the operative word here.

Different scenario, but apparently while deer left to rot where shot by contractors. If that went into the food chain……
Ken.

Certainly in Africa it all does. Too valuable a resource to waste.

 

[willie_gunn]

As I understand it the Bill does not seek to outlaw trophy hunting per se, but rather the importation of hunting trophies from species of conservation concern, as defined in Annex A and B of the Wildlife Trade Regulations.

So there is nothing that will stop anyone who wishes to go abroad to hunt trophies, it will just be that you can't bring trophies back to the UK if those trophies come from certain species.

 

[Jon P]

Certainly in Africa it all does. Too valuable a resource to waste.

On my last trip to SA I actually went with the PH and delivered the carcasses to a little cutting plant/butchers in the local town, was an interesting visit and good too see. - butchers was run by an ex police officer. Shop was employing at least 15 people that I saw on tne day.

 

[jall55]

Your little crusade will not save trophies nor will it save shooting/stalking or publicity owned guns.

The sooner you get your head around that the better!

Put your efforts into something more constructive like knitting or tapestry.

I feel so so sorry for you

 

[starr shot]

As I understand it the Bill does not seek to outlaw trophy hunting per se, but rather the importation of hunting trophies from species of conservation concern, as defined in Annex A and B of the Wildlife Trade Regulations.

So there is nothing that will stop anyone who wishes to go abroad to hunt trophies, it will just be that you can't bring trophies back to the UK if those trophies come from certain species.

We already have cites so no need really for this Bill other than vote gathering.

 

[Leec6.5]

What everybody is forgetting, your opinions don’t matter!

The government etc will do what ever they want to regardless of what we think when it comes to trophies, guns, etc etc etc, so really, you’re getting your knickers in a twist over something that you have no control over.

 

[John Gryphon]

Hunting wont stop if trophies/trophy hunting is banned.

 

[JTO]

If UK trophy export is banned, will it mean fewer foreigners coming to price-out UK shooters?

 

[Leec6.5]

If UK trophy export is banned, will it mean fewer foreigners coming to price-out UK shooters?

Thats already happening.

 

[HonestJohn]

If UK trophy export is banned, will it mean fewer foreigners coming to price-out UK shooters?

Brexit did that

 

[Leec6.5]

Brexit did that

100%

 

[JTO]

Brexit did that

Not locally to me.