UK Government Launches UK Deer Management Strategy Consultation

[countrryboy]

Im sure it goes both ways but my little syndicate had managed a WT area for years very effectively. We didnt pay and a financial offer was made during our lease. We left the roe as they are in tiny numbers in this area and that is what WT wanted. Muntjac and CWD were hammered. We have retained one area from next door farmer. Im led to believe the WT area was taken on by a well known commercial operation. Now we get overspill on to the farm from the area we used to manage.

If a good commercial outfit is outbid by a syndicate who dont turn up and dont take deer in the numbers required it should be part of the lease the landowner can take action.

Plus i dare say down ur neck of woods better bucks/heads and less stalking opportunities and more population/money around.
Possibly more pro guides all cutting each others throat too out bidding each other for places
I'm in a pretty forested area and to be honest not really very many pro guides, a few do it part time but not a lot considering the size of area.

And esp so if ur on very good terms (cheap/free/ in return for venision/work)
But when u look at the syndicate prices advertised on here sometimes unless ur out a lot and localu would actually be cheaper going out with a pro guide

 

[mudman]

Except at very high density do Muntjac cause serious damage?

Do Chinese water deer cause any damage at all? Or at least any more than a hare in the same location. I always understood them to be benign.

 

[VSS]

Except at very high density do Muntjac cause serious damage?

Do Chinese water deer cause any damage at all? Or at least any more than a hare in the same location. I always understood them to be benign.

I am led to believe that CWD can be a bit of a nuisance in carrot fields, which I heard from a farmer who grows carrots and has quite a high population of CWD on his land.

 

[User00053]

A lot going on methinks, big picture and so many different snaps to choose from depending on your politics or religion. Bottom line seems to be majority agree there are too many of this or that species and numbers need to be controlled and methods in place to do so with some impact made so surely all good there?
Huge debate to follow depending on your take on how, when, and what ( bottom line work the bolt) and the evils of this and that, so all academic until some poor sod has to carry out the task in hand.
Have no real understanding of how the southern counties some bordered by sea with great infrastructure end up with the numbers they have in the first instance, something gone wrong or never right in first place, after all its not the highlands, but both have high numbers or did. Bottom line shoot more by whatever means works in the short term, then plan for the welfare of deer in the future and recreational stalkers role after the unpalatable bit has been done, as whatever folks may say it has not worked so far, regional differences may have exceptions.

 

[308tikka]

Except at very high density do Muntjac cause serious damage?

Do Chinese water deer cause any damage at all? Or at least any more than a hare in the same location. I always understood them to be benign.

They damage farmers crop- he wanted them controlled hard.

Muntjac do enormous damage. But possibly not as much as grey squirrel of which there is no national plan to cull (to my knowledge).

 

[countrryboy]

This is a pretty controversial point

But would driving muntjac to shotguns work in areas where they are high numbers?

And before anyone gets upset at me suggesting it, many on here have no problem travelling abroad to shoot driven large game with rifles ( must admit not my thing) and most of the game looks like it is really moving quite fast and most won't have much practice at it either

And i'm not talking about driving them so they're moving fast and presenting challenging shots, i'm not talking about sport here, just getting numbers down
Just walking/moving them out the wood quietly and only taking shots at slow moving animals at very sensible ranges.
I've lost count of the number of times roe and esp fallow have walked out of a wood the hounds are in and just ambled past u within 5 or 10m not a care in the world until they scent u.
A shot gun with the right shot would have plenty power to kill it humanely and easier swung/pointed than a rifle and less of a marign for wounding/missing as more than 1 projectile.
Also safer if no high seats


And 30 years ago in my area some quite big estates 10's of thousands acres with a lot of forestry almsot sole deer (roe) control was done on 'vermin' days at the end of the season. We could never get lads to turn up to our fox drives as at every other estate they got a boot load of venision.

I have to admit i'm not familar with munties or how they would behave if driven, would they head out into open fields or just double back into the wood?

 

[User00053]

This is a pretty controversial point

But would driving muntjac to shotguns work in areas where they are high numbers?

And before anyone gets upset at me suggesting it, many on here have no problem travelling abroad to shoot driven large game with rifles ( must admit not my thing) and most of the game looks like it is really moving quite fast and most won't have much practice at it either

And i'm not talking about driving them so they're moving fast and presenting challenging shots, i'm not talking about sport here, just getting numbers down
Just walking/moving them out the wood quietly and only taking shots at slow moving animals at very sensible ranges.
I've lost count of the number of times roe and esp fallow have walked out of a wood the hounds are in and just ambled past u within 5 or 10m not a care in the world until they scent u.
A shot gun with the right shot would have plenty power to kill it humanely and easier swung/pointed than a rifle and less of a marign for wounding/missing as more than 1 projectile.
Also safer if no high seats


And 30 years ago in my area some quite big estates 10's of thousands acres with a lot of forestry almsot sole deer (roe) control was done on 'vermin' days at the end of the season. We could never get lads to turn up to our fox drives as at every other estate they got a boot load of venision.

I have to admit i'm not familar with munties or how they would behave if driven, would they head out into open fields or just double back into the wood?

Don’t know anything about driving munties, but put standing guns close together who know what they are doing and a 12 bore shotgun is a devastating tool against most things.

 

[nun_hunter]

The only way I can see deer numbers being drastically reduced and maintained is to put a bounty on them. That way people will spend more time out after them. Night shooting/out of season would only be a temporary fix

Either a bounty on does in season or landowners/leaseholders are financially responsible for damage caused by deer numbers out of control.

 

[308rws]

What kicked this off apparently is the England Trees Action Plan. England Trees Action Plan 2021 to 2024

We are therefore developing a deer management strategy, as we committed to do in the England Tree Action Plan. The strategy will aim to ensure that new and existing woodlands are resilient, sustainable and that wild deer populations do not cause unacceptable levels of impact to them. As part of this work, we are reviewing the evidence base, current barriers to effective management, relevant legislation, regulation and incentives as well as developing sector capacity, skills and markets. While seeking to increase the effectiveness of management, we will maintain high standards of animal welfare, humaneness, and public safety. 

The design of proposals for the strategy have been guided by the broad consensus across all stakeholder audiences from the England Tree Strategy Consultation in 2020, that the deer population is a major challenge to protecting and improving our trees and woodland. All agreed that long-term sustainable solutions are required to ensure that an action plan for trees, woodland and forestry is successful in its aims.

I would therefore anticipate that new plans are also being produced for hare, feral goat, rabbit and squirrel control, as it's not just deer that eat trees.

 

[sikamalc]

I am led to believe that CWD can be a bit of a nuisance in carrot fields, which I heard from a farmer who grows carrots and has quite a high population of CWD on his land.

Correct. However generally as a rule I have not noticed any significant damage to crops or the environment in general, with CWD being present. Muntjac on the other hand can be a real problem. Especially in sensitive areas where there are wild flowers, such as orchids etc.
Quite often Hares will do a lot of damage on newly planted hedgerows and trees, and deer get the blame.

 

[User00053]

It’s going to be an educational thing for many land owners who view deer as a cash crop, as there is such easy money and if a land agent tasked with making ends meet can generate much needed income all good, supply and demand. Matters not if let to a individual who sub lets, or syndicate but people then apply their own measures for better or worse, all thus far for the most part about the £ .

 

[308rws]

I would therefore anticipate that new plans are also being produced for hare, feral goat, rabbit and squirrel control, as it's not just deer that eat trees.

The Govt and DEFRA are going to have their public relations work cut out in light of the Animal Welfare (Sentience) Act 2022, having to explain how the life of a sapling is more important to the nation than the mammals that eat it.

 

[Koenig]

Completed/submitted.

 

[Husky]

The Govt and DEFRA are going to have their public relations work cut out in light of the Animal Welfare (Sentience) Act 2022, having to explain how the life of a sapling is more important to the nation than the mammals that eat it.

Plants are now considered sentient so that would be easy !

 

[fallow me]

With the powers that be, wanting the future populations to eat meat grown from a single cell and vegetables grown in warehouse factory units , i really don't see what the problem is with deer, with more of there habitat being built on ,where are they going to go, there being concentrated into smaller areas especially in the south of the country hence there seem to be more deer about, As for 2 million deer , i seriously doubt that, and as for Muntjac I'm seeing more around the housing estate i live on than the woods i shoot, so how will they be controlled

 

[User00053]

The Govt and DEFRA are going to have their public relations work cut out in light of the Animal Welfare (Sentience) Act 2022, having to explain how the life of a sapling is more important to the nation than the mammals that eat it.

Think in current climate doors pretty much open for smoother transition and better reaction from the rational and logical Even the eco warriors might struggle to raise objections based on fact, may not put existing deer management in good light if they box clever though should it come down to it, more of a carrot and stick scenario at end of day.

 

[User00053]

With the powers that be, wanting the future populations to eat meat grown from a single cell and vegetables grown in warehouse factory units , i really don't see what the problem is with deer, with more of there habitat being built on ,where are they going to go, there being concentrated into smaller areas especially in the south of the country hence there seem to be more deer about, As for 2 million deer , i seriously doubt that, and as for Muntjac I'm seeing more around the housing estate i live on than the woods i shoot, so how will they be controlled

Education again, eat a muntjac a day keeps the doctor away . Sorry serious matter

 

[angusb1]

The Govt and DEFRA are going to have their public relations work cut out in light of the Animal Welfare (Sentience) Act 2022, having to explain how the life of a sapling is more important to the nation than the mammals that eat it.

About time someone addressed the issue of educating the general public about this though, and who better to do it than a government department?

 

[Bowland blades]

That will be the main issue, it has not been unknown for the game dealer to suspend taking in anymore deer as his dealership is rammed.
Not sure how this will end up, maybe stop importing venison would help?
Will deer be left to rot in the field, or just not be shot, and therefore have an adverse effect on what DEFRA are trying to achieve.
Bring back the DI, I'm sure they would have a solution to all of this

the issue with venison sales ? Its in the hands of very few people commercially whom have no need to build a business supplying the UK consumer more directly and with a finished product ie Mince , steaks , roasting joints . Those who have jumped through the hoops and worked at this cannot get enough venison

 

[User00053]

About time someone addressed the issue of educating the general public about this though, and who better to do it than a government department?

Maybe best treated like mushrooms for their own good, big can of worms, or go whole way and have the deer commission for England and Wales formed ( Scotland may form their own or whatever) to look after deers welfare in long term. Making assumption Scotland will be independent or seen to do their own thing.
In these liberated days with changing ways ( rod Stewart killing of Georgie) some interesting social manipulation needed, or just go for carrot and stick to keep things simple and sure winner.