Unlawful changes to England gamebird release licence challenged by BASC

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terrier1 said:
All these challenges to shooting and countryside way of life. This is all coming because government and the antis all know that the organisations that represents us have no b##ls for any legal fight or any other fight for that matter.
I would have thought they would be reminding the government that there is an election coming soon and a lot of traditional supporters won't be voting in their favour.
Click to expand...
I don't think any party supports shooting so ya burnt as much as scolded whoever you vote for.
Jimmy
 
Kevgun said:
I'm sure one of the legal beagles will correct me, but the word "release within 500m, surely if a Pheasant pen is say 600 metres away and you put 1000 pheasants in it, but they find there way to a SPA or SSSI after release, then you have complied with the GL43 by releasing them outside of the exclusion zone?
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the latter part of GL43 states the requirement to "disperse gamebirds that are grouping near the boundary" ROFL


Most if not all the shoots on salisbury plain SPA do not have the luxury of being able to release 600m outside the SPA nor do they have the facility to "simply" move an established pen outside the SPA or buffer zone. Some operate in MOD designated areas that are completely within the SPA and the buffer.
Not all the affected shoots are releasing massive amounts of birds.

If this policy is about avian influenza then how come it only applies to pheasants and partridge?
If there was enough water/conditions about, the shoots can release as many mallard as they wish??????????????

this is an outright attack on game shooting and nothing else.
 
dersbum said:
the latter part of GL43 states the requirement to "disperse gamebirds that are grouping near the boundary" ROFL


Most if not all the shoots on salisbury plain SPA do not have the luxury of being able to release 600m outside the SPA nor do they have the facility to "simply" move an established pen outside the SPA or buffer zone. Some operate in MOD designated areas that are completely within the SPA and the buffer.
Not all the affected shoots are releasing massive amounts of birds.

If this policy is about avian influenza then how come it only applies to pheasants and partridge?
If there was enough water/conditions about, the shoots can release as many mallard as they wish??????????????

this is an outright attack on game shooting and nothing else.
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Yes I agree, it has Mr Packhams name all over it.
 
enfieldspares said:
I read the article and those protesting the legislation seemed to be shoots putting down large numbers of birds? Where the actual habitat would not support that number of wholly wild birds.

The account using the words "thousands" at one point. So am I right that this won't affect traditional "wild bird" shoots? The impression conveyed is shoots affected are the big bag boys.

Those releasing massive numbers of birds on land where the the natural habitat could not sustain a "wild bird" shoot of anything even a fraction of that number.

So money can be found, yet again, to fund defence of the interests of the "big bag boys". The same old focus...as with the reason for BASC's lead shot ban call...on protecting such operators.

Yet money could not be found to fight unlawful imposition of mandatory GP reports when that was done by Lincolnshire and other Chief Constables.
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While I do agree with some of wot u say.

But I'd argue a 'wild bird' shoot is almost non existent now unless ur a grouse Moor.

Even small farm shoots that never put any down, in 99% will be shooting birds wandered from someone else's shoot, even if that is miles away.
A truly wild pheasant will be quite a rare thing in uk now and having enough to actually shoot sustainably every year will be very rare indeed without a massive amount of hard work.

While I'm not a fan of big commercial shooting and the chase for cash.
But without these big commercial shoots, would game farming still exist? Many of the game bird medicines and pellets?
Would not be worth the while for big companies to spend the money getting drugs approved and licensed for game birds.

I used to run a small shoot few hundred birds on 1000 acres, if this law evolved to take in sssi's and to Scotland that shoot could not carry on.
1 10acre sssi smack bang in middle would render almost the whole 1000 acres impossible le to release birds.
Yes could release birds at very ends of shoot but no one is going to do that.

Small syndicates are great craic but they bring ne t to zero money in for local community wether jobs, mechanics fixing shoot motors or hotels throu the winter months.
And while many will try to do as much conservation work as they can most syndicate shoots are skint so can't afford to do all that much

Believe me this is just the start, this will evolve and grow.
Even if they issue a licence this year or for next 10 years without hassle, how can anyone invest in habitat work pen building and poults when the licence can be taken away or goal posts moved at very short notice

I'm glad to hear basc is talking very sternly to them, that will really sort this out!!

Even the timing wot f#ckwit brings out a ruling like this literally 6 weeks before birds go to wood?
Shoots could have birds on they're rearing field that now have no pens they're allowed to use.
The law and its timing are both bonkers really.
 
BASC update:

BASC presses Defra on gamebird release debacle - BASC

BASC has warned of legal action over Defra’s failure to reinstate permissions for shoots to release gamebirds in Special Protection Areas.
basc.org.uk basc.org.uk

Shooting UK update with comments from NGO:

www.shootinguk.co.uk

Shoots are facing ruin and keepers out of jobs - Shooting UK

Hundreds of shoots face financial ruin and gamekeeper redundancies are stacking up following the change to general licence 43 (GL43) in late May. Introduced in 2021 following a legal challenge from Wild Justice, GL43 allowed the release of gamebirds on or near European protected sites. But under...
www.shootinguk.co.uk www.shootinguk.co.uk

Salisbury Plain update from Danny Kruger MP:

www.dannykruger.org.uk

Changes to shooting licenses on Salisbury Plain - 18 July, 2023

As the rain lashed Wiltshire last Friday I joined a group of gamekeepers and shoot managers in a barn high on Salisbury Plain. We stood amid piles of bags of gamebird feed and discussed the imminent death of shooting on the Plain.
www.dannykruger.org.uk www.dannykruger.org.uk
 
Liveonce said:
How many warning do you BASC intend to give Defra before you actually take legal action? The clock is ticking.

Whilst you think about it WJ act


wildjustice.org.uk

Wild Justice starts new legal challenge of gamebird release regulations - Wild Justice

Today Wild Justice sent a Pre-Action Protocol letter to Dr Therese Coffey, the Secretary of State at Defra, and named […]
wildjustice.org.uk
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Legal processes have been underway since we announced them some time ago. There is also growing political support to resolve the issue - which requires those impacted and others to get involved. Given your interest would you be willing to write to your MP asking them to write to the Minister on your behalf registering your concerns and asking for the situation to be resolved for all shoots impacted?
 
Conor O'Gorman said:
Legal processes have been underway since we announced them some time ago. There is also growing political support to resolve the issue - which requires those impacted and others to get involved. Given your interest would you be willing to write to your MP asking them to write to the Minister on your behalf registering your concerns and asking for the situation to be resolved for all shoots impacted?
Click to expand...
Conor if I actually believed writing to my MP would make any difference then I would do so, however I met with him twice regarding a formal complaint I made via the crime commissioner against the chief constable regarding GP reports and he was just not interested in anything more complicated than dog fowling on pavements, which was his write up in the local rag after the second time I met with him. Shooting is not a vote winner. His priorities at this time; how they are bringing down inflation, 75 years of the NHS, small boat crossings, local schools, levelling up.
Shooting game is of no interest to him as it will not win him his seat again and you are deluded if you think otherwise.

You say the legal process has been underway so have you sent a pre-action protocol letter to Dr Therese Coffey, the Secretary of State at Defra?
 
There is more to this than meets the eye it’s a smoke screen to hide something else.
Besides all the crap that is going on with these licenses there is surely an animal welfare issue as well but defra or natural England won’t talk about that part of it.
Avian flu is just being used as scare mongering the general public there final intentions are to ban game shooting or restrict it so much Estate won’t be able to nothing.
 
I don't want to be defeatist but the war is already lost and basc still haven't a clue.

The moment pheasants were classified as non native invasive species was the deathnell for shooting and releasing reared birds
Thats when they should off been objected, far far too late now.
But I think that announcement was Oct time so all basc lads would too be busy on driven days

Just like with lead ( how can the argue against any law banning it when they pushed to voluntary ban it) how can they possibly argue to release a non native invasive bird into a spa area?
No judge is going to go for that, press and social media will have a field day.
Imagine trying to get permission to sow Jap onot weed or him balsam in a sssi area? Yet pheasants are classed as the same

We and the rest are playing chess at masters level, I think basc would struggle to manage a game of snap.
I'm pretty sure we will have a list of future legal arguments its lining up just biding its time
Basc is just purely reactive and even then chasing shadows.

Basc must be rolling in cash the now with all this interest on the money in the fighting fund. They always claim to be hundreds of thou put in every year and never spend owt.
 
Liveonce said:
Conor if I actually believed writing to my MP would make any difference then I would do so, however I met with him twice regarding a formal complaint I made via the crime commissioner against the chief constable regarding GP reports and he was just not interested in anything more complicated than dog fowling on pavements, which was his write up in the local rag after the second time I met with him. Shooting is not a vote winner. His priorities at this time; how they are bringing down inflation, 75 years of the NHS, small boat crossings, local schools, levelling up.
Shooting game is of no interest to him as it will not win him his seat again and you are deluded if you think otherwise.

You say the legal process has been underway so have you sent a pre-action protocol letter to Dr Therese Coffey, the Secretary of State at Defra?
Click to expand...
That letter went in some weeks ago. Your MP would be expected to act on your letter and that will make a difference if you could please find the time to do so rather than taking unfair swipes at BASC on efforts to resolve this general licences issue.
 
Conor O'Gorman said:
That letter went in some weeks ago. Your MP would be expected to act on your letter and that will make a difference if you could please find the time to do so rather than taking unfair swipes at BASC on efforts to resolve this general licences issue.
Click to expand...

How was asking if you had sent a pre-action protocol letter a swipe at BASC? surly that is a reasonable question to ask given when WJ do so it is announced to the world and content shown on their blog. Did you do likewise and I missed it?

As for a letter to my MP it was not difficult to conclude he is not keen on private gun ownership so no i will not waste my time with him, just as i wasted my time with Michael Howard my MP when they were banning pistols.
MPs look to represent their own personal keep my job agenda rather that that of the people who voted them in which is why shooting in the UK is where it is today.

Your judicial review is the best hope of a satisfactory outcome and wish you every success with it.
 
@countrryboy none of what you have stated about BASC above is true and perhaps you might wish to review BASC's activities last year in the 2022 annual review here:

basc.org.uk

BASC Annual Review - BASC

BASC Annual Review BASC Annual review 2022 Download
basc.org.uk basc.org.uk

Given your interest in this topic are you willing to write to your MP asking them to write to the Minister on your behalf registering your concerns and asking for the situation to be resolved for all shoots impacted?
 
Trouble with government departments they make the rules up as they go along look at Covid for example, if they are wrong they just manipulate it until it looks like they are right.
I don’t think it matters which way you vote these days most MP are just full of hot air and **** and just liars.
 
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