UPDATE: TVP FAC/SGC Renewals

[Orion]

As I have said,"don,t ask for a section 7" if you have sent your renewal off in plenty of time, and followed there guidelines , then it is the police responcibility to issue it not your to ask for it, as your license is being processed it means you still have a license, if the police were going to revoke your license you would have heard prior to renewal

I'm sorry Taff, but it doesn't matter how many times you say it you are not correct on this one.

The story about still having a valid FAC/SGC after expiry provided it's being processed appears to have been a convenient ruse put about by hard pressed police FLDs to fob off telephone enquiries from concerned shooters wanting their renewed tickets back. The issue of a S7 Permit due to the FLD being unable to process a renewal application made in a timely manner counts as a negative performance indicator, so you can see why they would want to avoid issuing them.

I can't emphasise enough that if you don't have a valid FAC/SGC or a Section 7 Permit you are in danger of being prosecuted and losing your firearms.

Don't take my word for it, have a look at the information on the BASC website:

"It is an offence for anyone to be in possession of a firearm without the appropriate authority. Any advice that it is acceptable to continue keeping your guns without a valid certificate should be ignored, even if your renewal has been submitted."

http://basc.org.uk/firearms/how-to-apply-for-a-certificate/


The subject also caused a certain amount of criticism of police FLDs in the recent report into firearms licensing by HMIC - it's worth reading the report in full but here's a relevant extract:

Case study 1
In our survey of firearm certificate holders, two respondents described the same
experience with one force.
Their renewal applications had been submitted in good time but the force did not
complete the renewal process before expiry of their certificates. Instead of issuing
temporary permits to allow them to continue possessing and using their firearms
lawfully, the force told them that they could continue doing so until the renewal
process was complete, but only in that force area.
In a further example involving another force,the renewal applicant was not told of
any restrictions on where he may use his firearm, only that he would not be able to
purchase ammunition until the new certificate had been issued. The example from
this force was supported by the experience of three other respondents.
In none of these cases was the correct procedure followed. Without a valid certificate
or temporary permit, the continued possession of firearms by these applicants was
unlawful, both within their respective force area and elsewhere. This is irrespective of whether an application is pending.

4.78.
For forces to allow certificate holders to possess firearms unlawfully is a
serious failure; arguably, they have colluded in breaking the law. It is
unacceptable behaviour which must stop immediately.
https://ukshootingnews.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/hmic-firearms-licensing-thematic-report.pdf

 

[Taff]

I stand corrected .
Hants have a lot to answer for, but I doubt they will.
I was asked to return my license recently as I will be out of the country for more than twelve months, As I had disposed of the rifles left in the UK, and exported two I thought ok, they then asked where my guns were and gave me a list of guns I owned, strangely a 270 I have had for 2 yrs was not on the list,even though, the gunshop and myself had informed them of the purchase, and they had been informed of my intention to export the rifle , also they had no record of who now owned a LB Pistol and a shotgun I had sold.
I asked for them to please inform me via e mail of the receipt of my licenses, as yet no reply, I can only assume they have arrived.

 

[lister]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/117799/firearms2.pdf

perhaps sending this form in every time a section 7 is issued would get things changed

 

[Orion]

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/117799/firearms2.pdf

perhaps sending this form in every time a section 7 is issued would get things changed

Oh, I do like that - good idea!

Plus a copy to the FLD and CC with a covering letter explaining why you are doing so.

 

[nicowilson]

Oh, I do like that - good idea!

Plus a copy to the FLD and CC with a covering letter explaining why you are doing so.

+1

 

[I. Farticus]

UPDATE:

On 8th Dec I wrote to Head of TVP Firearms, ccing my MP, CEO of CA and Chief of Police for TVP.

It was an ever so slightly chippy email, and on 9th I received one back from TVP Firearms, bemoaning their problems of 900 renewals per month, and lower staff count (I don't give a sh*t frankly) and giving me 7 further items to respond to that weren't on the form.

No apology, no reference to me having had to find out about Section 7, along with my liability to prosecution given the duff advice (as per earlier posts) ref expanding.

So, here we are on 16th Dec. I have no licence, no expanding ammo as it's now with Emmett & Stone in Marlow, no Section 7 and no response to my return email giving them all the additional detail required.

I'm not working at the moment, so given that I have UK Govt SC, I even offered my services to the Firearms team to help clear the backlog. Turns out that they are worried about the current roles, so it could (could) be that TVP are possibly (possibly) be looking to allegedly (allegedly) outsource this.

There are so many things to be disappointed about, but the main one is that we are now paying a higher fee for an even sh*ttier service and that was a major point in the email, and the one that my MP has picked up on and is writing to the Chief of Police about...

I don't know if my renewal file will suddenly get "lost", but what do I have to lose with no licence, no ammo and no way of getting out to stalk anyway!!!

Make a fuss boys & girls. Make a fuss, cc folks that will make a bigger fuss, and let's see what happens. Hell, it can't be any worse that it already is.

No matter what, have a fantastic Christmas and New Year.

All the best
iain

 

[Whitebeard]

Good for you farticus but as you know the majority of FAC holders dont want to rock the boat.Away from all the online moaning, when asked to put their heads on the block and complain en masse they usually declin quietly something the british sheeple are renowned for doing when challenged to back up their annoyances.Those that take it upon themselves to air their greivences get applauded by some or branded radicals by others but are seldom backed up by the community they are trying to help.Ian.

 

[Whitebeard]

If all FAC holders were to write to their MP highlighting the inadequacies of UK firearms licensing, even though some MPs will get more letters then others, when divided equally each would recieve around 280 letters add SGC holders and the sum rises to near 2K each that would get their attention!!! Ian.

 

[Orion]

UPDATE:

On 8th Dec I wrote to Head of TVP Firearms, ccing my MP, CEO of CA and Chief of Police for TVP.

It was an ever so slightly chippy email, and on 9th I received one back from TVP Firearms, bemoaning their problems of 900 renewals per month, and lower staff count (I don't give a sh*t frankly) and giving me 7 further items to respond to that weren't on the form.

No apology, no reference to me having had to find out about Section 7, along with my liability to prosecution given the duff advice (as per earlier posts) ref expanding.

So, here we are on 16th Dec. I have no licence, no expanding ammo as it's now with Emmett & Stone in Marlow, no Section 7 and no response to my return email giving them all the additional detail required.

Iain, having been between the rock and the hard place of firearms licensing myself, (partial unwarranted revocation with little explanation of their misguided action!), I know that you'll be feeling seriously peeved about it.

Are the seven further items they have requested your response on valid, or possibly a stalling device to support their tardiness in dealing with your renewal?

Good luck with it.

 

[I. Farticus]

Iain, having been between the rock and the hard place of firearms licensing myself, (partial unwarranted revocation with little explanation of their misguided action!), I know that you'll be feeling seriously peeved about it.

Are the seven further items they have requested your response on valid, or possibly a stalling device to support their tardiness in dealing with your renewal?

Good luck with it.

Am I taking any medication
Am I suffering from mental illness, anxiety or depression
5 years of shooting club records
Proof of land - acreage etc...
Scan of all club memberships
Scan of ammo table on FAC
etc...

If I was just a stalker, then a couple wouldn't be there, but it's just more "stuff". My club responded with, "oh, you must be with TVP as everyone else asks for 12 months"

It's a pain, but it is what it is and I've made my annoyance clear, so may this be a heads-up for others... No matter HOW early you get your renewal in, they will deal with it when they want, and then come back with additional malarkey

 

[Whitebeard]

I cant see why they are asking for the further 7 items, taking any medication, suffering from any mental condition, proof of land and club membership are standard questions on the form 101, checking your club attendance and ammo usage is their job not yours, makes me think they may have lost your application. Ian.

 

[I. Farticus]

Well, the simple answer is that they just don't have the bodies on the ground...

2 have gone from near me in the last year, and they won't be replaced due to cutbacks across all areas - I've just had an email from TVP saying that they are closing a half-dozen front desks across the region, and cutting back the hours on a few more. All will go to a £29m saving by 2021

Specific to firearms, this leaves less bodies to manage a growing number of licensees, and it's just not good enough considering that there are firearms involved.

Every new Certificate needs a visit, as do all Renewals as they are treated (and rightly so in my opinion) in the same way, as lot can happen in 5 years and this is the chance that they get to do due diligence on us.

Other than more funding, I don't know what the answer is but, Heaven forbid, it might take something on a US scale of mass shooting for UK Govt to take a good look at the funding. My worry is that it would just go to the crushing of our cabinet contents as the general public will just go ape sh*t.

Most is just my opinion, so take from it what you will, but we are possibly in a lose/lose situation here folks...

 

[kimh]

they will eventually out source the leg work to BASC then just oversea the final stamp...

 

[kes]

they will eventually out source the leg work to BASC then just oversea the final stamp...

I sincerely hope not - the job needs doing properly.

 

[8x57]

they will eventually out source the leg work to BASC then just oversea the final stamp...

Why not it just might work, something similar to France where regional hunting associations issue permits de chasse.

 

[Pedro]

Independence, old chap. BASC is seen as pro shooting (I know...I know), and one of the requirements of doing this would be the ability to be not only to be independent but to be seen to be independent. I'd think that there's more chance of the RAC doing it than BASC. However, politically with the current climate, doing such a thing as outsourcing firearms licensing could be seen as a hot potato.

 

[oxfordfowler]

Just reading this thread - so for what it's worth. I am patiently (not really) awaiting the renewal of my SGC from Thames Valley. I sent the completed forms back to the them on the 20/08/15 and so far no contact of any find, but they did cash the cheque pdq.
So I emailed the firearms dept the other day (as my SGC expires in 3 weeks) and today I received a reply. No surprises - they are very busy and short of staff. I will be issued with a temporary permit covering the next 6 months.

6 months - words fail me.

 

[mathieson]

just got the reminder for my sgc through from thames valley which was abit of a supprise as its not due till june 2016 from what the letter said they are allowing up to 6 months to process renewals costs more takes longer go figure

 

[I. Farticus]

FINAL UPDATE:
Including the Christmas and New Year break, just 7 working days from the quickly arranged FEO visit, 18 days from the expiration of the previous certificates and my Renewals have arrived in the post...

Have I beaten/cheated the system that's running 6 months behind? Well, I've certainly jumped the queue, but to my mind it's simply down to the following:
In my email I was polite, knew my facts, was firm but fair and cc'd my MP, Chief of Police and Le Grand Fromage of Countryside Alliance once I realised that no-one was going to contact me about Section 7 or the delays. My MP has taken great interest in this, and wrote to TVP to understand what's going on in the Firearms Team at the moment.

It is ENTIRELY down to the folks on here that I managed to avoid getting myself into a position of being subject to prosecution my holding onto my expanding ammo, so a HUGE thank you to you all.

A 6 month delay is appalling. Section 7 certificates not covering expanding ammo is appalling. The lack of basic communication is appalling. The cost cutting that is affecting firearms in the UK is appalling. NONE of this blame should lie with the FEO's who are hamstrung by the powers that be. The powers that will have built walls around themselves so that if it something goes Boobies Skywards it will be the FEO that takes the flak.

I hope that everyone else caught up in this debacle gets a Section 7 in time (I never received one, so technically held firearms illegally for 18 days?) and can continue with their passion and for some of you, job!

Right, I'm off to Emmett & Stone to reclaim my expanding ammo!

HNY to you and yours
iain

 

[EMcC]

I have never had any problems with re-newals, or any Firearms related transactions, with Wiltshire Firearms Department, but it seems as if this year will be my first
I submitted my forms, correctly filled out and checked, on 15th October 2015.
I explained that my FC expires on the 3rd January 2016 and that I have arranged a foreign trip, requiring my new Fc for production at customs, on the 5th January and was assured that all would be sorted in time by then, which it has on the previous renewals.
It is now the 2nd January, a Saturday, so my FC expires tomorrow on a Sunday and so far have had no contact from anybody regarding it's renewal.
On Monday, the next working day for the Department when I presume they all go back to work, I will be in illegal possession of both firearms and shotguns and quite a few soft and hollow point bullets.
I have no doubt that my FC is all completed and ready for delivery but it would seem, I presume, that the FEO is so busy he hasn't got round to me.
It is really cutting it fine this time round and is a worry I could do without.