Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
If you ever wonder about having a Venison dinner or a lump of supermarket pork on your plate look at the Youtube video above ^^
Ps, I'm not sure if I've created a link or not
Venison or Cheap Pork...
- Thread starter Bo Diddley
- Start date
If you ever wonder about having a Venison dinner or a lump of supermarket pork on your plate look at the Youtube video above ^^
Ps, I'm not sure if I've created a link or not
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
It certainly makes you think. I'm only a few miles away from this abbatior, and the pigs certainly make a racket when the lorries are driven through the market town.
I also shoot rats on a unit that supplies Cranswick, and I must admit I have at times felt a little angst. My brother also works on an outdoor unit for the same outfit..
The effect on workers could be a psychiatrist's PhD studies...
Venison is very popular in this home
PS.. I hope that dog is loving life
Woodenbeam
Well-Known Member
Pretty chilling stuff. No wonder the mass producers don’t like this type of thing getting out - mechanical mass slaughter isn’t easy to watch, it’s all money driven & then dressed up in posh terminology to hide the truth.
The presenter makes a point of a pig being bolted & then cut - think I’d rather this than dropped into a gas tank. Shame the pig wasn’t actually able to walk to the tank itself but suffered less in the long (or short term) than had it been able to. 4,000 pigs a day going through the unit………..big numbers and lots of money.
Could easily see this having a very detrimental effect on the pork industry.
I was felling pretty onside till the presenter announced to go vegan…………I do draw the line somewhere
The presenter makes a point of a pig being bolted & then cut - think I’d rather this than dropped into a gas tank. Shame the pig wasn’t actually able to walk to the tank itself but suffered less in the long (or short term) than had it been able to. 4,000 pigs a day going through the unit………..big numbers and lots of money.
Could easily see this having a very detrimental effect on the pork industry.
I was felling pretty onside till the presenter announced to go vegan…………I do draw the line somewhere
Woodenbeam
Well-Known Member
Funnily enough I was only thinking about this myself - more due to the price lamb is currently. Old season lamb making £205/head in molten market three weeks ago, a local abattoir paying £200+/lamb……..this equates to £8-£10/kg before it gets anywhere near the butchers counter.
Venison in the fluff - £2/kg……..that’s a fair bit of wiggle room to make a respectable profit without pushing boundaries. Had this conversation with a butcher friend and their reply was ‘the people who buy venison don’t mind how much they pay’…………
I think this does reflect the situation which I think is a shame. You have a natural product that can be harvested in a human fashion, processed and put on the counter at a price that everybody can benefit from……….but no let’s whack the arse off of it for maximum gain which is pretty shortsighted in the long run I think.
Solution………..
Supply direct to the end consumer and and champion the product that you supply. Not easy but well done to those that do.
Speak to you local friendly butchers, supply in the fluff and try to encourage them to change tact - affordable mince, affordable steaks, a more ethical alternative to mass production of meat.
If only it were that simple…….i’ve just awoken from my land of dreams, morning all and here’s to having a great day
Funnily enough I was only thinking about this myself - more due to the price lamb is currently. Old season lamb making £205/head in molten market three weeks ago, a local abattoir paying £200+/lamb……..this equates to £8-£10/kg before it gets anywhere near the butchers counter.
Venison in the fluff - £2/kg……..that’s a fair bit of wiggle room to make a respectable profit without pushing boundaries. Had this conversation with a butcher friend and their reply was ‘the people who buy venison don’t mind how much they pay’…………
I think this does reflect the situation which I think is a shame. You have a natural product that can be harvested in a human fashion, processed and put on the counter at a price that everybody can benefit from……….but no let’s whack the arse off of it for maximum gain which is pretty shortsighted in the long run I think.
Solution………..
Supply direct to the end consumer and and champion the product that you supply. Not easy but well done to those that do.
Speak to you local friendly butchers, supply in the fluff and try to encourage them to change tact - affordable mince, affordable steaks, a more ethical alternative to mass production of meat.
If only it were that simple…….i’ve just awoken from my land of dreams, morning all and here’s to having a great day
Last time I bought venison from a butcher (local posh "farm shop") it was £1/kg cheaper than equivalent diced beef. I needed something to stick in a stew, had forgotten to get anything out of the freezer beforehand. Anyway, I went for beef and ended up with venison because it was cheaper and we like venison. Obviously it's a much bigger markup than beef for the retailer even going at £1/kg less.
One thing I will say - that venison wasn't very nice at all. Very strong flavour, nothing like any of the venison I've produced myself or had directly from others, or bought in the past. If I hadn't tried venison before, I wouldn't buy any again based on that one experience, which is a shame. This is a good butcher, their other meat is top notch but obviously venison is hard to quality control... Is that part of why it's difficult to widen the market for it?
Woodenbeam
Well-Known Member
Shouldn’t be, if the carcass is supplied fur on a good butcher who knows his craft will be able to assess, utilise for best purpose & advise their customers. Taken to the extreme you wouldn’t recommend stewing the loin for example.
I will admit a lot of our venison is minced & then used in place of beef, possibly even mixed with a bit of that mass produced pork
just to add a bit of fat content. Loins seared, haunches roasted if that’s what’s wanted. Possibly sliced into leg steaks for the BBQ.Actually with BBQ season approaching venison burgers should be a mainstay on butchers counters. This might open consumers minds to the venison market place if priced correctly to entice
Gotta be wiggle room in pricing for a win win for all party’s.
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
Watching on the news last night I thought about how many times I’ve driven passed there with the back of my truck full of deer heading to the game dealers (just up the road for those not local). They certainly have a better end, but I doubt those with the placards would agree.It certainly makes you think. I'm only a few miles away from this abbatior, and the pigs certainly make a racket when the lorries are driven through the market town.
I also shoot rats on a unit that supplies Cranswick, and I must admit I have at times felt a little angst. My brother also works on an outdoor unit for the same outfit..
The effect on workers could be a psychiatrist's PhD studies...
Venison is very popular in this home
PS.. I hope that dog is loving life
Wattsapp doing the rounds with a photo of venison loin £48 kilo, rump steak £25 kilo, in a butcher's shop window.Funnily enough I was only thinking about this myself - more due to the price lamb is currently. Old season lamb making £205/head in molten market three weeks ago, a local abattoir paying £200+/lamb……..this equates to £8-£10/kg before it gets anywhere near the butchers counter.
Venison in the fluff - £2/kg……..that’s a fair bit of wiggle room to make a respectable profit without pushing boundaries. Had this conversation with a butcher friend and their reply was ‘the people who buy venison don’t mind how much they pay’…………
I think this does reflect the situation which I think is a shame. You have a natural product that can be harvested in a human fashion, processed and put on the counter at a price that everybody can benefit from……….but no let’s whack the arse off of it for maximum gain which is pretty shortsighted in the long run I think.
Solution………..
Supply direct to the end consumer and and champion the product that you supply. Not easy but well done to those that do.
Speak to you local friendly butchers, supply in the fluff and try to encourage them to change tact - affordable mince, affordable steaks, a more ethical alternative to mass production of meat.
If only it were that simple…….i’ve just awoken from my land of dreams, morning all and here’s to having a great day
Bo Diddley
Well-Known Member
A local has put in a complaint to the BBC about biased reporting.. everyone they interviewed was in support of the Cranswick factory when in reality it is far from the truth... the plant has outgrown its site on the edge of an expanding market town.. many complaints of the smell coming from the factory itself, and many complaints about the health implications of the factory pumping the blood water on the surrounding farmland for decades... The BBC also put a slant on the number of "Locals" the factory employed, in reality, 90% of those employed are from overseas, it started years ago... Lithuanians then Polish, then Romanian then something else, and the next batch is coming from the Philippines apparently.. Watton would be better off if the factory relocated far far away....
That's OK. A little bit more than I charge, but not much.
Absolutely.
I think that Game Dealers, instead of paying a low price and accepting all carcasses, should pay a higher price (something close to £4/kg) but accept only the very best carcasses. Anything substandard should be rejected and it should be the stalkers job to dispose of it.
If stalkers persist in the current practice of using Game Dealers as a disposal service then carcass prices are always going to be low and venison quality is always going to be variable.
Stalkers need to up their game.
Unfortunately I have heard of stalkers using the dealers to offload carcasses they wouldn't want to eat. Shoot a stinking rutty buck or a ropey old skin and bones doe, and ship it off to the game dealer. Keep nice stuff for yourself or your own sales.
There was talk fairly recently of introducing some sort of wild venison quality assurance standard thingy, wasn't there?
The Women's Institute used to have a moto for their produce markets:
"Sell the best, eat the rest".
I apply the same to my venison.
Yes, but it seemed to be entirely geared towards protecting the supply chain of the major players in the game (Forestry England, Highland Game, Supermarkets), and completely ignored the smaller scale producers and stalkers.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
When I go to the game dealer local to me in Waldron I'm amazed that probably less than 30% of people dropping off venison don't have or don't put down their trained hunter/gam meat handling number. No wonder the price is low when it's a pretty unregulated industry and seen as an easy way to get rid of a carcass to allow more shooting.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
As you have said before, venison is a prime product, a deer carcass isn't and the two aren't the same.
I wonder what percentage of stalkers actually take a carcass after a paid stalk? If you're doing it as a hobby and not taking the meat you're just paying to kill something and view the carcass as a waste by product that someone else needs to dispose of.
The iron bar image below applies to stalkers thinking they should be getting top price for a raw product.
Attachments
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I still recall going around the old Abbattoir in Reading. I was studying Agriculture at the University. It was not a pleasant experience at all. Very different to the small abbatoir run by the local butcher where he killed a couple of cows, and a few pigs and sheep every other week.
Frankly if anybody is going to eat food, they absolutely need to appreciate where it comes from and how it is produced, harvested, slaughtered and processed. As a society we do eat far too much cheap meat. Meat and animal products have always been part of a diet of those living in temperate / northern climates. Livestock are a very good way of utilising less productive land to provide food. They can turn something that’s inedible to us, into high quality protein. But it should be treated with respect and not the cornerstone of every day crap food.
As for deer. In 1980’s and early 90’s farmers in Southern Africa started thinking hard about farming cattle and sheep. Cattle are grazing animals needing grass, and in Southern / Central Africa grass doesn’t fare particularly well, especially with long dry season. Plus cattle are badly affected by Tetse fly.
So instead many farms and ranches have got rid of the cattle and gone back to native ungulates such as spring bok, impala, kudu etc. These animals are designed for the local climates and vegetation. They have a mixed diet and are can thrive on a mix of scrub, and grasses. In particular during the dry season things mopane seeds provide valuable protein which allows them to utilise poor quality grass and dried leaves. Game meat is now widespread and provides a significant part of the local meat in many areas. Harvesting is by a rifle bullet through the head with mobile abbattoirs and chillers doing the processing. Sport hunting provides additional income on the top.
Here in the UK we have a thriving population of native and non native deer species. They thrive in the woodlands and on the edge of farmlands, indeed sometimes they are on farmland itself.
But the general view is that they are a pest just to be got rid of. Rather than a high quality product, that is ethically produced.
Our whole meat industry has been tied up by the big supermarkets and the likes of the Cargill Group. They want large single source suppliers. Tesco’s for example gets just about all its chicken from Cargill’s chicken farms in the Wye Valley. So if you are eating a Tesco’s chicken in North of Scotland it will have come from and shat in the Wye valley. These large producers have the ear of government and are quite happy with all the regulations. They can afford to have a full time vet on site at an abattoir. We used to blame the EU for all of this red tape. But in fact it was all of our own making. There is very little room for small scale producers, producing for local market. Friends had a free range chicken business. They produced under 20,000 high quality chickens a year. They had a direct market into local restaurants, hotels and consumers with daily deliveries in a 40 mile radius. Local abattoir wouldn’t do their chickens, so they set up a small production line themselves. It worked very well. They could only run one day a week under local council regs. They had the market to do a lot more, but the regs wouldn’t allow them to more. To justify the additional costs of running the plant say 3 days a week they needed to jump to doing 200,000 chickens a year. After two years of struggling they gave up the chicken business and took salaried jobs that paid the bills.
Coming back to venison we have sadly lost most of local butchery industry. It cannot compete with the supermarkets. And it’s just getting worse with all new house building. Deals are done between developers and large supermarkets- new housing development- new supermarkets.
So there is nobody there to take venison products into the market. For the likes of us who shoot deer, getting appropriate licences, certificates etc to push the venison into the market is quite high. Many on here do have thriving little sidelines turning the venison they shoot into high quality product for the local market.
What we need is more of these individuals, but also for some to take the next step to start venison from a wider constituency into the market. However taking that next step up is fraught with all sorts of paperwork, costs etc etc
Hence we have a few large game dealers underpinned by contracts to take all venison from a few major landowners with a monopoly on the market.
Frankly if anybody is going to eat food, they absolutely need to appreciate where it comes from and how it is produced, harvested, slaughtered and processed. As a society we do eat far too much cheap meat. Meat and animal products have always been part of a diet of those living in temperate / northern climates. Livestock are a very good way of utilising less productive land to provide food. They can turn something that’s inedible to us, into high quality protein. But it should be treated with respect and not the cornerstone of every day crap food.
As for deer. In 1980’s and early 90’s farmers in Southern Africa started thinking hard about farming cattle and sheep. Cattle are grazing animals needing grass, and in Southern / Central Africa grass doesn’t fare particularly well, especially with long dry season. Plus cattle are badly affected by Tetse fly.
So instead many farms and ranches have got rid of the cattle and gone back to native ungulates such as spring bok, impala, kudu etc. These animals are designed for the local climates and vegetation. They have a mixed diet and are can thrive on a mix of scrub, and grasses. In particular during the dry season things mopane seeds provide valuable protein which allows them to utilise poor quality grass and dried leaves. Game meat is now widespread and provides a significant part of the local meat in many areas. Harvesting is by a rifle bullet through the head with mobile abbattoirs and chillers doing the processing. Sport hunting provides additional income on the top.
Here in the UK we have a thriving population of native and non native deer species. They thrive in the woodlands and on the edge of farmlands, indeed sometimes they are on farmland itself.
But the general view is that they are a pest just to be got rid of. Rather than a high quality product, that is ethically produced.
Our whole meat industry has been tied up by the big supermarkets and the likes of the Cargill Group. They want large single source suppliers. Tesco’s for example gets just about all its chicken from Cargill’s chicken farms in the Wye Valley. So if you are eating a Tesco’s chicken in North of Scotland it will have come from and shat in the Wye valley. These large producers have the ear of government and are quite happy with all the regulations. They can afford to have a full time vet on site at an abattoir. We used to blame the EU for all of this red tape. But in fact it was all of our own making. There is very little room for small scale producers, producing for local market. Friends had a free range chicken business. They produced under 20,000 high quality chickens a year. They had a direct market into local restaurants, hotels and consumers with daily deliveries in a 40 mile radius. Local abattoir wouldn’t do their chickens, so they set up a small production line themselves. It worked very well. They could only run one day a week under local council regs. They had the market to do a lot more, but the regs wouldn’t allow them to more. To justify the additional costs of running the plant say 3 days a week they needed to jump to doing 200,000 chickens a year. After two years of struggling they gave up the chicken business and took salaried jobs that paid the bills.
Coming back to venison we have sadly lost most of local butchery industry. It cannot compete with the supermarkets. And it’s just getting worse with all new house building. Deals are done between developers and large supermarkets- new housing development- new supermarkets.
So there is nobody there to take venison products into the market. For the likes of us who shoot deer, getting appropriate licences, certificates etc to push the venison into the market is quite high. Many on here do have thriving little sidelines turning the venison they shoot into high quality product for the local market.
What we need is more of these individuals, but also for some to take the next step to start venison from a wider constituency into the market. However taking that next step up is fraught with all sorts of paperwork, costs etc etc
Hence we have a few large game dealers underpinned by contracts to take all venison from a few major landowners with a monopoly on the market.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Interesting point. In many cases those offering the stalk want to charge additionally for the carcass, and it rather grates when you have paid a few hundred quid already to shoot the animal and then being asked for another - often above game dealer rates to the carcass.
A lot of recreational stalkers don’t have the facilities to take home a beast. Or feel that they don’t have. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility to skin out a carcass and then quarter. And in the Best Practice Guides, DSC1 and 2 type training there needs to be an appreciation of how to take the beast from field to table, not just field to dealer.
A situation that will be further consolidated by the proposed new Venison Assurance Scheme, to the detriment of the smaller scale producers.
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