Venison Prices

[VSS]

I’m not missing the point at all, you preach about producing a grade a carcass by head shooting and getting the appropriate price accordingly, I don’t disagree with your head shooting does produce a grade a carcass, but is it worth the risk of suffering?

In my opinion, no

No, it's not worth the risk of suffering. So anyone not capable of it shouldn't do it, and should accept, with good grace, a lower carcass price accordingly.
I don't head shoot wild deer, except very rarely under exceptional circumstances. I'm not a good enough shot. But I know people who are and do. They are few and far between, but should be rewarded for their skill by receiving premium prices for their carcasses.
The problem lies with those who have an overinflated idea of their own ability.
And I don't believe that the sort of tiny groups that people proudly post pictures of on here are a true reflection of their ability in the field. If they were, everyone would be capable of humane head shots without risk.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

No, it's not worth the risk of suffering. So anyone not capable of it shouldn't do it, and should accept, with good grace, a lower carcass price accordingly.
I don't head shoot wild deer, except very rarely under exceptional circumstances. I'm not a good enough shot. But I know people who are and do. They are few and far between, but should be rewarded for their skill by receiving premium prices for their carcasses.
The problem lies with those who have an overinflated idea of their own ability.
And I don't believe that the sort of tiny groups that people proudly post pictures of on here are a true reflection of their ability in the field. If they were, everyone would be capable of humane head shots without risk.

If your not good enough in the wild, you shouldn’t do it in you penned in field of fallow!

No different except for a fence.

 

[VSS]

If your not good enough in the wild, you shouldn’t do it in you penned in field of fallow!

No different except for a fence.

It's not as simple as that.
As I'm sure you're aware, really.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

It's not as simple as that.
As I'm sure you're aware, really.

No different at all still a living creature that shouldn’t fall under the risk factor!

Saw a red deer in January just gone with a jaw swinging, not shot on my ground, I spent over 50 hours stalking trying to end its suffering,I saw it in the early march skin and bones trying to keep with the herd 2 boundaries over, no animals life is woth that amount of suffering.

The first rule of stalking is be humane, those who can’t abide by that first and most important rule should have their rifles confiscated

 

[VSS]

No different at all still a living creature that shouldn’t fall under the risk

I think you're being deliberately dull, just to wind me up, which is a pity really as I think you're a decent sort of fellow on the whole.

Do you need me to spell out why it's different?

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I think you're being deliberately dull, just to wind me up, which is a pity really as I think you're a decent sort of fellow on the whole.

Do you need me to spell out why it's different?

Not at all I’m not being dull just factual!

To me a deer is a living creature that should demand the upmost respect, wild or behind a fence!

You have a post in the stalking available, shooting in one of your parks, I believe chest shot only is stated, carcass to be purchased by the shooter.

That tells me you want the shooter to not take a risk of a head shot, so preach what you sow, you head shoot for profit nothing more

 

[nun_hunter]

No different at all still a living creature that shouldn’t fall under the risk

Morally is is better to chest shoot 100% of deer so they all suffer for a few seconds or minutes depending on the exact shot placement than it is to head shoot 100% of deer and have say 95% die instantly with no suffering but possibly 5% suffer for longer?

You're in a different position to most in that you used to track wounded deer so your view and amount of encounters with poor shooting and suffering will be skewed by the type of jobs you attended. No one would phone you up and tell you they shot a deer and it dropped on the spot just for your info.

Its like a police officer spending 90% of their time dealing with the dregs of society then easily coming to the conclusion that society as a whole is terrible rather than realise they deal with a tiny portion of wider society.

 

[VSS]

Not at all I’m not being dull just factual!

You may be being factual, but I think the facts you're using in this discussion are somewhat limited.

To me a deer is a living creature that should demand the upmost respect, wild or behind a fence!

Absolutely, 100%

(Incidentally, I feel the same way about neck shots as you feel about head shots).

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

Morally is is better to chest shoot 100% of deer so they all suffer for a few seconds or minutes depending on the exact shot placement than it is to head shoot 100% of deer and have say 95% die instantly with no suffering but possibly 5% suffer for longer?

You're in a different position to most in that you used to track wounded deer so your view and amount of encounters with poor shooting and suffering will be skewed by the type of jobs you attended. No one would phone you up and tell you they shot a deer and it dropped on the spot just for your info.

Its like a police officer spending 90% of their time dealing with the dregs of society then easily coming to the conclusion that society as a whole is terrible rather than realise they deal with a tiny portion of wider society.

Yes my opinion is in your word skewed, it I’ve also man enough to admit I’ve ballsed up a head shot and blew the snout off a roe, I did eventually kill it after a very very long range shot, it horrified me that much I’ve not head shot since, in tune I does disgust me that there are those who think it’s acceptable to take the risk purely for ££££££ nothing more nothing less.

That incident is what drove me into the tracking extreme direction that I went!

 

[VSS]

Yes my opinion is in your word screwed, it I’ve also man enough to admit I’ve ballsed up a head shot and blew the snout off a roe, I did eventually kill it after a very very long range shot, it horrified me that much I’ve not head shot since, in tune I does disgust me that there are those who think it’s acceptable to take the risk purely for ££££££ nothing more nothing less.

That incident is what drove me into the tracking extreme direction that I went!

He said skewed, not screwed.
Completely different.
Skewed means that your opinion has been biased by your own previous unfortunate experience. Which you have stated is the case.
Screwed implies that you're a bit off your rocker. That's not what he said.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

He said skewed, not screwed.
Completely different.
Skewed means that your opinion has been biased by your own previous unfortunate experience. Which you have stated is the case.
Screwed implies that you're a bit off your rocker. That's not what he said.

Edited accordingly thank you

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

He said skewed, not screwed.
Completely different.
Skewed means that your opinion has been biased by your own previous unfortunate experience. Which you have stated is the case.
Screwed implies that you're a bit off your rocker. That's not what he said.

Head shooting wild or park is one argument you will not win with me, I’ve seen enough suffering to last a lifetime and 80% of them have been head shots, the rest were leg shot, mostly upper leg from long range efforts, basically all the crap that they can’t deal with themselves.

 

[VSS]

Head shooting wild or park is one argument you will not win with me, I’ve seen enough suffering to last a lifetime and 80% of them have been head shots, the rest were leg shot, mostly upper leg from long range efforts, basically all the crap that they can’t deal with themselves.

I'm not trying to win an argument with you, I just wish you had all the facts before being so judgemental.
But as you haven't asked, you don't know.

 

[Sheamus]

You get exactly the same price for this shot placement as you would for a head shot..
Alter the angle of the shot and that's where the deductions come into play..

 

[VSS]

You get exactly the same price for this shot placement as you would for a head shot..
Alter the angle of the shot and that's where the deductions come into play..View attachment 431319

You would, but you shouldn't.

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

I'm not trying to win an argument with you, I just wish you had all the facts before being so judgemental.
But as you haven't asked, you don't know.

Educate me

 

[Bugsy]

Everything else is worth less, so

Absolute dribble .. your telling everybody on here that any other shot other than a head shot is no use worth nothing you really shouldn’t inflate yourself with comments like that or … your not in real world . Walking into a fenced compartment built to farm deer and shoot at very close range by a trained person is very different to someone stalking a forest , woodland or hill . I think you should think about your comments sometimes and emphanize the fact that body shots can be taking when then the deer to be shot is over 300m away . There is nothing wrong with shooting deer in the head but be cautious I would say and make sure all conditions are perfect and it’s range is within your capability’s …your no hopeless or inferior if you have to shoot them in the body … or I’m I

 

[VSS]

Absolute dribble .. your telling everybody on here that any other shot other than a head shot is no use worth nothing you really shouldn’t inflate yourself with comments like that or … your not in real world .

No, that's not what I'm saying at all, and you should read my posts properly before responding. Please.

Walking into a fenced compartment built to farm deer and shoot at very close range by a trained person is very different to someone stalking a forest , woodland or hill . I think you should think about your comments sometimes and emphanize the fact that body shots can be taking when then the deer to be shot is over 300m away . There is nothing wrong with shooting deer in the head but be cautious I would say and make sure all conditions are perfect and it’s range is within your capability’s …your no hopeless or inferior if you have to shoot them in the body … or I’m I

I agree with all that 100%, and you'd know that if you read my posts properly.
(Not so sure about the 300m shots though, but each to their own. I know my own limitations).

 

[Norfolk Deer Search]

No, that's not what I'm saying at all, and you should read my posts properly before responding. Please.

I agree with all that 100%, and you'd know that if you read my posts properly.
(Not so sure about the 300m shots though, but each to their own. I know my own limitations).

So in my so far uneducated opinion you head shoot in the park but not in the wild am I correct thus far?

So in my 20 plus years of limited experience at 1 point shooting more deer (with copper for the record and not at 3000fps plus ) than most can dream of, this tells starts to tell me a bit of a story.

The park deer are head shot for max profit to aid the tax rite off as a part of your farming enterprise and the wild are for personal use or to top up on orders possibly would I be correct?

Personally If it was me I would bust shoulders in the park as their basically worthless and bust shoulders in the wild because their basically worthless, if your selling as much as your making out add £2/kg to loin and haunch that covers the loss of the shoulders and that’s a win win as a qualified butcher in a previous life shoulders are not worth the time and hassle

That way no head shooting required

 

[VSS]

Educate me

Ok, so you want to know why culling my park deer is different, and why I have made the personal decision as to why I think my park headshots are ethical, despite my reservations about wild headshots? Note: every shot for every stalker is a personal decision. No one else can make the decision for you.
I don't expect to change your opinion, just as you are unlikely to change my opinion on neck shots, but I do hope it'll make you a bit less judgemental.

Firstly, I am under no pressure. I haven't driven 200 miles to my ground, and this is the only opportunity that presents itself at the end of a blank day (which I think is probably the reason why most messed-up head shots are taken). In the park, if the perfect shot doesn't present itself, I can just walk away. Go and do something else for an hour or two. The deer will still be there later.

Secondly, it is easy for me to take whatever aids to accuracy I might need into the park, as it's not far to carry stuff. Sticks, tripod, whatever. There's no risk of having left something in the pickup and not having it available when I need it.

Thirdly, choice of rifle. Much as I love my hard-hitting .270, I know it isn't my most accurate rifle. It's great for chest shooting where there's more margin for error, and I need the additional clout to punch through ribs etc, but for the headshots in the park I can use a smaller calibre more accurate rifle for headshots, as I'm not going to be chest shooting anything.

Thirdly, bullet choice. I use a lightweight (58 grain) very fast (almost 4000 fps) extremely destructive bullet. It would be eminently unsuitable for chest shooting, but the very flat trajectory (when compared to a heavier, slower, bigger calibre bullet) gives me the accuracy I need, and the destructive design gives a small, but nonetheless significant, margin for error.

Fourthly, range is limited to sensible distances by virtue of the fact that it's a small area, so there is zero temptation to take shots at extended ranges.

Fifthly, in the unlikely event that something goes wrong, there is zero risk of losing the animal. Follow up is immediate.

Sixthly, headshooting the deer I want causes considerably less stress to the rest of the herd (which, as someone who works with livestock, I'm sure you'll agree is a very important consideration).