Very Keen & Excited

[LarryLightFoot]

So my pup will be six months in a week, basic training getting there but when it comes to dead stuff especially Deer and Deer scenting it all but goes out the window .
He‘s keen as hell, I laid a couple of trails this morning couple of hours apart and on different routes using a fresh Munty hide from butchering yesterday.
As soon as he was on it he was off literally running the scent on the end of the tracking lead pulling like a train , whilst I’m happy that he’s switched on and I would never discourage him in anyway I’m wondering if, when and how to try and train him to calm down as I want him to be steady for Stalking or is he just being a six month old excited pup and should be left to enjoy it and develop naturally ?

 

[Jon P]

So my pup will be six months in a week, basic training getting there but when it comes to dead stuff especially Deer and Deer scenting it all but goes out the window .
He‘s keen as hell, I laid a couple of trails this morning couple of hours apart and on different routes using a fresh Munty hide from butchering yesterday.
As soon as he was on it he was off literally running the scent on the end of the tracking lead pulling like a train , whilst I’m happy that he’s switched on and I would never discourage him in anyway I’m wondering if, when and how to try and train him to calm down as I want him to be steady for Stalking or is he just being a six month old excited pup and should be left to enjoy it and develop naturally ?

Wish I had asked this with my latest GWP, 3 yrs old now and still wired and has no self preservation at all.
I stalk with the latest one but still on a lead , which is not a major headache, as she still indicates deer well before I can see them and does not pull me.

Previous dogs have always been off lead in front of me . This one will course muntjac for fun.

 

[LarryLightFoot]

So my pup will be six months in a week, basic training getting there but when it comes to dead stuff especially Deer and Deer scenting it all but goes out the window .
He‘s keen as hell, I laid a couple of trails this morning couple of hours apart and on different routes using a fresh Munty hide from butchering yesterday.
As soon as he was on it he was off literally running the scent on the end of the tracking lead pulling like a train , whilst I’m happy that he’s switched on and I would never discourage him in anyway I’m wondering if, when and how to try and train him to calm down as I want him to be steady for Stalking or is he just being a six month old excited pup and should be left to enjoy it and develop naturally ?

Here he is

 

[Keith Edmunds]

So my pup will be six months in a week, basic training getting there but when it comes to dead stuff especially Deer and Deer scenting it all but goes out the window .
He‘s keen as hell, I laid a couple of trails this morning couple of hours apart and on different routes using a fresh Munty hide from butchering yesterday.
As soon as he was on it he was off literally running the scent on the end of the tracking lead pulling like a train , whilst I’m happy that he’s switched on and I would never discourage him in anyway I’m wondering if, when and how to try and train him to calm down as I want him to be steady for Stalking or is he just being a six month old excited pup and should be left to enjoy it and develop naturally ?

A fresh skin is an overwhelmingly powerful scent. Okay for first steps but the dog doesn't have to try or think at all with so much scent. Use scent shoes and one droplet of blood every yard or so and you might see him slow down as he will have to work it all out. Everyone has a different idea but 50ml of blood per 100 yards is a good starting point - then reduce as experience grows.

I've read of people recommending fairy liquid bottles for trail laying!! - That's got to be some looooong trail!!

 

[LarryLightFoot]

Thanks for this, like a numpty I forgot my small blood bottle for collecting but will definitely be collecting a batch when bleeding out the next one and have kept some legs in the freezer for scenting shoes .

 

[Dunwaters]

It looks like you’re making the most basic error of them all, you’re running your pup on “game” before you’ve ingrained basic obedience training.
Go right back to the start, (you know pup will hunt now so that’s not an issue), concentrate on basic obedience work, recall, drop and heel.
Get the basics perfect, then move on.
Its boring I know, but its essential
If you can’t get a response to the basic commands without distractions, you have absolutely no chance when things heat up on live game. Your dog lives to hunt, he loves it and its all he’s thinking of, if you give a command while he’s out on a rant and he ignores it, don’t stand there, get after him, don’t let him learn that he can do what he likes.
At 6 months of age pup should still be having fun, you’re pushing him and expecting too much too fast, if you don’t get the basics right now, you will have no foundation for later training.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Thanks for this, like a numpty I forgot my small blood bottle for collecting but will definitely be collecting a batch when bleeding out the next one and have kept some legs in the freezer for scenting shoes .

Might work Larry, looking at the video, I'd be happy with that enthusiasm from a 6 month old - he's just a babe.

 

[John Gryphon]

So my pup will be six months in a week

Why did you name him So?

At 6 months of age pup should still be having fun, you’re pushing him and expecting too much too fast,

Not for me, I have had pups on the kill months before that with the bitch/dog/dogs. They absorb so much more. Wild dogs follow their old mum at the squeaky voice age believe or not.
There is no need for a lead for any dog in a hunt situation.
The only dog that needs a lead is a pitbull and then hung over a limb.

 

[Bowland blades]

try reducing blood / hair on the set trail , walk down wind of the trail so the dog is not using your scent. Lets not forget the dog could follow the footsteps of an un-shot pheasant let alone a blood trail .
Set the trail a day ago etc etc

 

[Overlay]

Take your time mate, let the dog settle in, nothing better watching a steady methodical dog grafting to find a scent for you, they know what to do already they are amazing
Try not to put pressure or speed on him, he will end up running over the scent

 

[John Gryphon]

Lets not forget the dog could follow the footsteps of an un-shot pheasant let alone a blood trail

YES! When one sees a deer 'across the river' at 6PM then the next morning takes the hounds across the river at 6AM or so that is when you see a dogs nose work. 12 hours later then they lift him two K`s up the Mount..oooh I got a shiver then, true.

 

[LarryLightFoot]

It looks like you’re making the most basic error of them all, you’re running your pup on “game” before you’ve ingrained basic obedience training.
Go right back to the start, (you know pup will hunt now so that’s not an issue), concentrate on basic obedience work, recall, drop and heel.
Get the basics perfect, then move on.
Its boring I know, but its essential
If you can’t get a response to the basic commands without distractions, you have absolutely no chance when things heat up on live game. Your dog lives to hunt, he loves it and its all he’s thinking of, if you give a command while he’s out on a rant and he ignores it, don’t stand there, get after him, don’t let him learn that he can do what he likes.
At 6 months of age pup should still be having fun, you’re pushing him and expecting too much too fast, if you don’t get the basics right now, you will have no foundation for later training.

Much appreciated I think I need to manage myself on these matters .

 

[LarryLightFoot]

Take your time mate, let the dog settle in, nothing better watching a steady methodical dog grafting to find a scent for you, they know what to do already they are amazing
Try not to put pressure or speed on him, he will end up running over the scent

Thanks for this as it’s confirming what I was thinking I’m doing to much to soon as stated above back to basics and get it right.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

A very experienced German trainer starts his very young but he uses food drive. He takes the pup out hungry and heels in food along the trail. His theory (and he is a very successful trialler) is that the dog must work for his dinner - if he goes too fast - he goes hungry.

Another valid point of this training is that the prize is along the trail - or the prize IS the trail - and not at the end of the trail. Indeed he never goes OTT at the end of a trail - just quiet praise.

I haven't used this method as I heard of it after I had trained my own in the more conventional way - but he has passed may 1000 metre / aged 24 and 48 hour exams with multiple dogs - so there must be something in it.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Here is Stefan with a 15 week old teckel pup. Note the chalk markers on the trees.

 

[Alan_Hayes]

I don’t see a great deal wrong with the video. Yes he’s fast. Though don’t know your aims and the level you are expecting to achieve.

Some dogs are faster than others labs, HPRs etc will track faster etc. and you are able to read him the dog, though you do know well here the track is going.

A skin drag for a 6 month old dog, specially if it is hot and that is what he is use to doing, will absolutely fly down the track- simply to easy he/she is looking forward to the reward at the end.

The simple solution is Make it harder, that simple means less scent, swapping to shoes feet and blood start to age and reduce blood etc.

Depending on what you your aim is, a stalking dog/companion or a tracking dog. to much basic early on may create a sticky dog (no bad thing) as a stalking companion and you are looking for a deer that’s been well shot and done the dirty dash.
But may hinder if you a training a tracking dog, and the dog has to be released on a chase track.

 

[Alan_Hayes]

Thanks for this, like a numpty I forgot my small blood bottle for collecting but will definitely be collecting a batch when bleeding out the next one and have kept some legs in the freezer for scenting shoes .

You should ideally use the same blood and legs from the same animal.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Sorry to gatecrash Larry, but a question for Alan....
Do you think that the stalking companions used primarily for the dirty dash work after clinically dead on their feet deer can get too used to easy to find, very hot and smelly deer and come to expect it.
Once on a cold, old difficult trail, they can't understand why they can't just find it as per 99% of what is their usual role? I wonder if too many easy tracks can be counterproductive?

 

[Alan_Hayes]

Keith. Absolutely if the dog is only trained on hot work and does hot scents sink the teeth into a warm deer that’s all it knows it’s just to easy.

The dog is looking for different scents and much weaker , when you are doing cold work. Rather just blood which is likely to mask other the scents, in the moments and for several hrs after.

Though it works both ways if the dog, you are only cold scenting and the dog is not use to a hot track, it can wobble their head. For example cold track, into hot (bump deer off wound bed) and train for this as well.

If I have had live relatively hot track or had a chase I will be laying a cold training track at the earliest to bring her head back around.

All that said and done it’s a fine balance. Too much cold work training of 100s and 100 of metres zero blood etc can be detrimental and will dampen the drive as well it’s got to be fun.

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Keith. Absolutely if the dog is only trained on hot work and does hot scents sink the teeth into a warm deer that’s all it knows it’s just to easy.

The dog is looking for different scents and much weaker , when you are doing cold work. Rather just blood which is likely to mask other the scents, in the moments and for several hrs after.

Though it works both ways if the dog, you are only cold scenting and the dog is not use to a hot track, it can wobble their head. For example cold track, into hot (bump deer off wound bed) and train for this as well.

If I have had live relatively hot track or had a chase I will be laying a cold training track at the earliest to bring her head back around.

All that said and done it’s a fine balance. Too much cold work training of 100s and 100 of metres zero blood etc can be detrimental and will dampen the drive as well it’s got to be fun.

Very interesting, thanks Alan.