WARNING.......... LEE Precision Priming tools................

[Lateral]

The following LEE Precision primer tools have a potentially dangerous issue, and in my personal opinion, there is totally insufficient warning given by LEE Precision, and having spoken to two dealers, both have been oblivious to this issue.

New AUTO-PRIME
ERGO-PRIME
AUTO BENCH PRIME.

I recently bought the AUTO BENCH Prime, and after priming some brass, was very pleased with it. However, yesterday evening, I started to prime some more, and the mechanism jammed up. I freed, and removed a jammed primer, but the tool clearly had an issue, and stopped feeding primers.

So this morning, I called the supplier, who said he had seen this problem before, but suggested I check the instructions, because he thought there may be an issue with some primer brands jamming because they had burrs on them. !!!

So, I go and find the instructions, and find the following on the back page............So guess what brand of primer I use, and I guess a very big percentage of all reloaders use too. So if you have a LEE priming tool, and use Federal Large rifle primers, be VERY CAREFUL !




Now I did look over the instructions when I assembled the parts, but all of the pictures, and instructions are on the two centre pages. I seem to recall glancing at the back page, but the pictures just show how to bolt the tool down, so I didn't bother reading the rest. With hind sight, I should have, but you don't expect something so serious, to be buried on the back page ! Plus, most of us don't do instructions !

I have been lead to believe (and stand to be corrected) that the issue has nothing to do with Federal primers having burrs (I've never found a burr) but that they are far more sensitive to pressure being applied to them, and the chemicals used, are far more volatile than CCI, Remington, etc'. LEE state that only one primer at a time should be loaded, and fed, but just be very careful if the tool doesn't feel right, stop, and check, before applying more pressure, and setting a primer off.

I'm shocked that LEE Precision haven't made all of their dealers aware of the potential danger, and put a big, clear sticker on the outside of the box, making it clear not to use Federal large primers. I hope I haven't come across as being melodramatic, but mine jammed, and I was just lucky I didn't try, and force the primer. I'd hate to think it happened to someone else.

 

[Eddie P]

It's in bold and underlined. If you need your hand holding and don't read instructions I'm not sure you should be handling explosives.

Federals are known for being sensitive, if the dealers didn't know that I'm not sure they should be selling explosives either.

Sorry to sound harsh.

 

[enfieldspares]

This is a long known issue with some Lee priming tools. The seller SHOULD have know it.

I'm very surprised the person that sold it to the OP wasn't aware of it...certainly it's at least ten plus years old this non-compatibilty with Federal primers.

I'd be having words with the seller. The OP is entitled to be upset that the seller didn't make him aware of it.

 

[Alantoo]

snip...

...certainly it's at least ten plus years old this non-compatibilty with Federal primers.

snip...

The version of Richard Lee's Modern Reloading that is available for downloading is the 2000 edition and the warning is included there...wouldn't cost a lot to have a sticky label saying "Only for use with CCI or Winchester primers".

Presumably Federal Primers pose the same threat for all makes of the tray fed primer tools, I wonder what the others do with regard to warning?

Alan

 

[Muir]

The use of any primer other than Winchester gets strong caution from Lee. Always has.~Muir

 

[Lateral]

I have been reloading for just over four years, I buy Federal primers in 1000's, and no one has ever mentioned anything, or have I ever heard of Federal primers being "sensitive", compared to any other primer.

I still have the original box from the LEE priming tool I bought over 4 years ago. It's a LEE AUTO-PRIME XR (Explosion Resistant Design) it clearly states that it is usable with ANY BRAND OF PRIMER.



So when I replaced it with the LATEST LEE AUTO BENCH PRIMING tool, it's fair for someone to assume, that the latest design isn't going to be any more dangerous, than one over 4 years old, or that a company would decide to make their new model, THE DANGEROUS & HARMFUL version !!!

Here is a picture of the new box...................




Can you spot the problem ????

Both of the LEE product boxes CLEARLY state the tools are USABLE WITH ANY BRAND OF PRIMER, why would any user then assume otherwise, including myself !

I appreciate that there are some very knowledgeable people on here, who know everything, about everything, but there are also people on here, who are new to reloading, or just about to get started, or others who may have taken the information on the box, as read. The post is for them.

 

[8x57]

Lateral are you a father?

My daughters bought me a tee shirt that has "real fathers don't read instructions" emblazoned in big bold letters right across the chest. According to them and my wife it is appropriate to me but I would disagree absolutely 100% with them. I do read the instructions, well sometimes, and usually only after I have assembled something or if it goes wrong.

 

[Highlandsjohn]

(Quote) I appreciate that there are some very knowledgeable people on here, who know everything, about everything, but there are also people on here, who are new to reloading, or just about to get started, or others who may have taken the information on the box, as read. The post is for them.(quote)

Lateral, You are right in what you say, we are not all experts,thanks for highlighting.Pay close attention to the instructions..

 

[jthyttin]

In the past, at least part of the problem was that some brands of primers were not cleaned thoroughly during production. So there could be some loose dust, which would deposit on tray crevices (?) and presumably could go off with static electricity.

So cleaning the tray with some method that don't introduce static electricity during or after operation was necessary when changing to "safe" primers.

I use mostly CCI but some Rem also, and wash the tray with warm water and a drop of mild detergent after few hundred Rem primers.

I've heard that new Lee trays incorporate some mechanism that separates the primer you're seating from the tray. And this mechanism is prone to jam etc. I don't have personal experience and try to use my old Lee tools carefully not to break them...

 

[badbob]

Obviously all primers need to be handled carefully.
BUT can we establish:
are Federal primers safe to use by homeloaders

and I thank Lateral for bringing this to our attention

 

[8x57]

I don't think it's so much that jthttin I think it's more down to tremendous variances in sensitivity and brisance between makes of primer. Lee are very much covering their arses with the warning in the instructions but at the same time they don't want to put customers off using their primer seating systems by making it abundantly clear on the packaging that they only recommend single loading with some brands of primer.

Yes badbob federal primers are safe to use by homeloaders. In the days of pistol shooting in this country they were well known for being the most sensitive and consistent so easily initiated and were the preferred favourites of many competitive pistol shooters who reloaded. CCI were considered to be the least sensitive.

 

[ChesterP]

There appears to be some contradictory information within the Lee Manual itself on this topic:

The priming chapter within the latest edition of the Lee Manual Lee do not claim that Federal primers cannot be used with all of their priming tools but that restrictions apply only as indicated on the table in the back of the chapter.

These apply to the original Auto-Prime, Auto-Prime II, Pro1000 and Load Master.

Presumably now, this list has grown to also include the Auto Bench Prime and the Ergo-Prime?

It also says within the manual that the ram priming tool and newer XR priming tools are safe to use with any primer, by design. Presumably, this then includes Federal unless the instructions supplied with those tools expressly say otherwise?

One of the reasons that they give for some brands of primers being unsuited to some priming tools is less to do with primer dimensions or sensitivity and more to do with primer compound used. Apparently there are two types of priming compound, basic and normal. Ones that use basic compounds are unsuited to Lee priming tools because accidental discharge is very violent with these primers, not necessarily because they are more sensitive to accidental discharge when priming. All primers should be treated with equal respect when home loading.

Reading between the lines, it seems that there remains contradictory or at least misleading statements within the Lee manual and that Lateral does have a point.

How can "...be used with any brand of primer" be squared away with primers using the "basic" priming compound "....must not be used in any Lee priming tools"?

The only common sense conclusion seems to be not to use Federal primers with any Lee priming tool if at all concerned.

It raises an interesting point on whether the same risks apply using these primers with other manufacturer's tools but since millions of Federal primers must be used every year, perhaps the risks are being over stated somewhat?

 

[Alantoo]

The Lee Safety Primer Feed that came with my anniversary kit which uses the press ram for seating...the magazine of primers being more remote than in the dedicated tools. Has "Safe with all brands of primers" on the packaging and "All brands of primers accepted" on the instructions.

As I said it would not cost a lot for Lee to put a sticker on the systems that were sensitive to Federal primers, given the cliché of real men not reading instructions 'til after the event.

Two days ago I managed to assemble the new chainsaw. replaced after our burglary, with the transport washer behind the bar thinking it was part of the anti-vibration system...then I looked at the instructions...only when it didn't look or feel right!

Alan

 

[8x57]

The only common sense conclusion seems to be not to use Federal primers with any Lee priming tool if at all concerned.

It raises an interesting point on whether the same risks apply using these primers with other manufacturer's tools but since millions of Federal primers must be used every year, perhaps the risks are being over stated somewhat?

Chester I think that you are probably right when you say "if at all concerned" but many reloaders are probably unaware of the warning or are prepared to take a chance. You are also more than likely to be spot on when you say it's exactly the same when using such primers in other company's reloading tools. I do know for instance that Dillon print warnings in their press manuals and also go so far as to fit armoured tubes to safeguard the user should there be an explosion in the primer magazine.

 

[Lateral]

Obviously all primers need to be handled carefully.
BUT can we establish:
are Federal primers safe to use by homeloaders

and I thank Lateral for bringing this to our attention

I have used many Federal primers, and never had any issues with them, and I consider them safe to use, whilst taking the normal precautions. I don't recall anyone having posted issues about them actually going off whilst being seated before ?

The issue, is the newer LEE Precision priming tools, which are prone to jamming, and that, in conjunction with the use of the more sensitive Federal primer is where you need to be careful.

The main issue, to me at least, is how LEE Precision market the product, at best misleading customers, telling them they can use any primer on the box, but inside the box, telling them that in fact, this isn't the case.

It's a fact that people don't always read product instructions, particularly if they are familiar with it's use, in this case replacing one product with a later version of the same thing, from the same company.


As an update, I found this on Lee's site this morning, a revised hopper, and feed mechanism, now listed as "XR" (EXPLOSION RESISTANT) and it will be interesting to see what these instructions say. We'll see !




IMHO, LEE Precision show a total lack of integrity, and concern for their customers, selling a product they know is potentially dangerous, and then charging them for an updated part, they should have supplied in the first place !

 

[Muir]

I took this off of one of the US reloading Forums at one time. I am sorry I don't have the correct citation for the author:

"I wrote the NRA reloading course and manual back in 1997. While I was doing it Richard Lee sent me a video of their test setup. They took a Lee Auto Prime with a full tray of primers. Primed a 30-06 case, and then allowed a live primer under the case with a live primer in it. The handle was then tightened up against the case like you were trying to force a primer into a case that already had one. The handle was tapped in that position under tension.

The Auto prime was mounted in a box at an angle like you were using it to prime and all the other primers on the side of the tray by the case. The box had a Plexiglas front and a propane torch inside the box was aimed at the top of the 30-06 case with the live primer in it. Eventually the heat gets to the primer in the case and it goes off. With CCI and Winchester the resulting reaction barley blows the cover off the Auto prime and at most one or two additional primers go off. With Federal the whole tool comes apart and lots of other primers go off and fly around in the box. Richard Lee told me that was the whole reason that they recommended against Federal primers in the auto prime."

Take it as you will.~Muir

 

[Lateral]

Well the new parts arrived, and they're identical to the original parts, apart from finding a part broken part, now I have something to compare.

Same warning about Federal large primers, and an instruction to leave the lid of the hopper open, and feed one primer at a time !

 

[Muir]

I use, and have used, an auto prime for years with all makes of primers. This included pressing Federal primers into tight pocketed military brass. I've never had a problem and don't expect to.~Muir