Wash in Permethrin to keep bugs away

[Overlay]

Hi Guys
very interesting thread
But as always I'll be sticking with the check check check list, The chemical type / reaction LD whatever label it comes under, bottom line IMO is to not put yourself at risk using chemicals, we've not needed these in the past and I guess it will be the same in the future.

using chemicals of any type or form will have an effect short or long term somewhere, and also applying chemicals will erase the need for some as an excuse to take risks by not having a thorough check over post every stalk or walk, the object is to keep safe, basic thorough checking is all that is required.

just to throw a bit of petrol on a fire, how about insects say like bed bugs that are human feeders, there has been shed loads of " immunity " reports to chemicals apparent incidents that are due to ( tongue in cheek) various different strength applications of insecticides, AGH, adjuvants etc etc ie misuse. ??????

There are many good reasons not to use chemicals ad hoc, my reason is "I don't like them " they are specialist chemicals and for a reason

really good thread guys

atb

phil

 

[Overlay]

Phill

LD50 4500 for Permetherin means a 2Kg cat would need to injest 9000g or 9KG of permetherin????

For insecticide treatment we use a dilute solution of 2% permethrin in water so a 25Ltr drum of insecticide contains 0.5 ltrs of permethering with a specific gravity of 1

SO a 2KG cat would have to drink / absorb through its skin 450ltrs of insecticide dilute in order to kill it by poisen

To spray a four bedroom house for wood worm we would use 125 ltrs

So the cat would somehow have to lick the product off every timber surface in aproxamatly 3 X four bedroom houses

There are products witrh a lower memalian toxisity than Permetherin. They are products like Borax and Flurox

Only problem is they are not knock down killers they are growth inhibiters / interuptors so totaly useless for mosqueto net type application.

Borax (Boron) has a LD50 of 15,000 but only stops egs from hatching.

Flurox prevents the insect produceing an exoscelitan by distroying its abuility to produce chitlin. A very slow and nasty way to die which only works on hatchlings

ATB

Mark C.T.I.S.

Hi Chasey

Bendiocarb was or still is rated as the number 1 high risk on cats, via ingestion when wet, I'm not looking at LD short or small exposure of any chemical to any animal or human will have a detrimental albeit small effect, link these up and you have a problem

nothings wrong and possibly not right in any situation, applying chemicals for whatever reason should be quantified, controlled and feasible, is there a good reason to apply - for ticks on clothing I don't believe the cure is chemicals, good washing, hygiene and check thoroughly and of course where possible don't put yourself at risk.

i still see people carrying deer over their shoulder on a strap, spraying your gators ain't going to be any good against that, education is the key not chemicals, tick diseases are apparently on the up, more people are using the forests and woodlands ( public) than ever before and mostly in the peak of the tick breeding cycle.

we grassed a muntie Buck today and it was loaded with a dozen ticks, needless to say, carried by two people, suspended gralloch, into the carrying box outside the truck, in the larder no one within two feet of it, still have the scrub down and bacterial wash and check tonight and in the morn just in casey

 

[bewsher500]

Don't put Deet on your clothing or boots
rot them away to nothing

 

[Southern]

Don't put Deet on your clothing or boots
rot them away to nothing

Deet did attack and disintegrate gas masks and the synthetic fibers in military clothing and boots, when originally used in its 100% formulation. The U.S. Army, after extensive testing at its Jungle Warfare School and in Panama, found that 33% was just as effective, and not nearly as harsh on clothing and equipment. But Deet a repellant is for your skin. Permethrin is bug killer for your clothing, and will not harm it. It is also very UV resistant, and lasts a long time in hot climates.

 

[Chasey]

Hi Chasey

Bendiocarb was or still is rated as the number 1 high risk on cats, via ingestion when wet, I'm not looking at LD short or small exposure of any chemical to any animal or human will have a detrimental albeit small effect, link these up and you have a problem

Bendeocarb is banned in the UK and has a LD50 of 34g/Mg body weight which makes it about twice as toxic as arsenic

As i said the bigger the number the safer the product

Bendeocarbe 34

Permetherin 4500

Bendeocarb does not contain Permetherin it is a Carbamate bassed product

 

[shakey jake]

Sorry chasey your wrong bendiocarb is not banned its still sold by Bayer under the brand name ficam either w 80% or d 2% I use it most weeks of the year it taken the place of organophosphates working on nerves in a different way to pyrethroids. Ld50 is a guide not a direct amount some animals will be affected at much lower dose some alot higher I'm very sensitive to synthetic pyrethroids fly spray touching my skin feels like sunburn in minutes not sure I could cope with cloths washed in the stuff!
Jake

 

[badbob]

Interesting thread, introducing pest control
and aircraft spraying etc
overall if you are crawling about in the heather
and handling deer then
permethrin treated clothing does work to reduce the tick
burden on yourself and has been passed as safe if used correctly.
Once you have had three or four ticks embed themselves on you
you welcome any deterent that will reduce this and of course
the risk of Lyme disease.

Yes we still need deet for exposed skin..... thats for the other mini threat..midges

 

[seprim]

Permethrin your outside clothes, boots, trays, flatbeds, floormats, hats, gloves, sticks, leads, truck seats, with this diluted to 5%
Woodworm Killer - Killgerm Chemicals Ltd | Pest Control Products, Suppliers, Distributors
can be bought at other places
let it dry before using it
wash your hands after use - rose sprayer (with pump) works a treat ;P
don't feed it to your cat
store it safely..
Andrew

 

[shakey jake]

Sorry seprim but that shouldn't be used against ticks off label usage is akin to shooting roe at night with a hornet no one would advise people to do that miss use of products could lead to removal from sale

 

[Chasey]

Sorry chasey your wrong bendiocarb is not banned its still sold by Bayer under the brand name ficam either w 80% or d 2% I use it most weeks of the year it taken the place of organophosphates working on nerves in a different way to pyrethroids. Ld50 is a guide not a direct amount some animals will be affected at much lower dose some alot higher I'm very sensitive to synthetic pyrethroids fly spray touching my skin feels like sunburn in minutes not sure I could cope with cloths washed in the stuff!
Jake

Strange? According to my PPDB database of pesticides its not cleared for domestic use in the EU?

bendiocarb

I thaught it had also been volenterily pulled from the US market alltogether?

In this information sheet its sugesting that a dose as low as 12.5mg/kg would have serious effects

Bendiocarb

Ficam is a "profesional use only" product which needs to be justified under COSHH by a qualified surveyour for application only by trained personell

I looked into the cat issue and found Cats do indeed have a lower tolerance for Permetherin than other mamals. The main issue aparently being Spot On flee treatments fro dogs which contain high doeses of Permethrin. I had never herd about it in the timber treatment industry because aparently our dosages are much lower.

Some people are hyper sensitive to permetherin but then again some people cant get near epoxy or Laytex? The point being Permethrin is cleared for domestic use in every thing from ant powder to skin rash cream. Bendiocarb is to the best of my knowladge not cleared for this type of usage. From what I understand of Bendiocarb it would not be considered a safe treatment for clothing or anything where potential skin contact could folow

 

[shakey jake]

Your spot on about bendiocarb being pro use only and banned in the states I'm a professional pest controller so use it for fleas and bed bugs diluted with water or in the powder form for wasp's and bees its not cleared for clothing or sheets. Never studied the data base you mention now going to read up
Jake
The data base you mention looks to me like it referring to bendiocarb in agriculture or horticulture I have no real knowledge of these areas.
The dose was given daily for 2 years I can't see how you could accidentally ingest that volume of the chemical but it's an American data sheet so maybe they just try alot harder than I would! Thanks for posting learnt some new stuff

 

[snusmumriken]

Bendeocarb is banned in the UK and has a LD50 of 34g/Mg body weight which makes it about twice as toxic as arsenic

As i said the bigger the number the safer the product

Bendeocarbe 34

Permetherin 4500

LD50 is usually quoted in millgrams per kilogram body weight ("migs per kig"). The correct figure for LD50 of permethrin in rats or rabbits is around 4000mg/kg, which is relatively high for a poison, i.e. 50% of rabbits weighing 1.5 kg would die if given 6g permethrin. However LD50 of permethrin for cats is only 100 mg/kg: see here. That means doses that can be used safely to protect dogs or humans from bugs would be lethal to cats.