Well done Dumfries and Galloway firearms department.

[Thar]

I sent my FAC in for a one for one variation on Monday, it was back with me on Thursday. Taking into account the time with the royal mail that means received the cert’ Tuesday and sent it back the next day.

Good service.

ATB

Tahr

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

I sent my FAC in for a one for one variation on Monday, it was back with me on Thursday. Taking into account the time with the royal mail that means received the cert’ Tuesday and sent it back the next day.

Good service.

ATB

Tahr

Brilliant Kevin looks like the forces are getting there act together in the admin dept.

Perhaps you may in light of such events see them in a different light in them helping FC applicants or maybe not.
ATB Stu

 

[countrryboy]

Dumfries have always been great to deal with, my last 1 for 1 took the paper work in and they done it in 10 mins while i waited. U can't get better than that. I dinae think i ken how lucky we are to deal with D&G esp when u read some of the other horror stories on here. Long may they continue to be like that.

Stingy with ammo allowances thou, suppose u can't have everything

 

[Thar]

Perhaps you may in light of such events see them in a different light in them helping FC applicants or maybe not.
ATB Stu

Hi Stu

I take it you are referring to my post on keeping fired cartridge by GMP, Stu I do not have a axe to grind with the police at all, but you have to look at each event on its own merit and give credit were it is due.

When you look at the post ref:- West Merica that are blatantly disregarding home office guidance, you have to ask yourself who the f**k do they think they are?

Again Stone post were a man is granted permission to own a rifle but then denied the right to purchase ammo for it.

ATB

Tahr

 

[6pointer]

So was that a straight swap with the .270 for a 6.5 swede kevin

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

Hi Stu

I take it you are referring to my post on keeping fired cartridge by GMP, Stu I do not have a axe to grind with the police at all, but you have to look at each event on its own merit and give credit were it is due.

When you look at the post ref:- West Merica that are blatantly disregarding home office guidance, you have to ask yourself who the f**k do they think they are?

Again Stone post were a man is granted permission to own a rifle but then denied the right to purchase ammo for it.

ATB

Tahr

Kevin in all honesty not so many forces accept that a .375 cal is suitable to shoot any quarry in this country its like firing a cannon ball to kill a mouse isnt it and more at home for use knocking elephants down isnt it.
Admitedlly it complies with energy reqd etc. but so does a howitzer


235g mv 2983 Me 4634
270g mv 2790 Me 4665
285g mv 2756 Me 4785
300g mv 2530 Me 4265


Anyone got the statistic data on the howitzer?

 

[Thar]

So was that a straight swap with the .270 for a 6.5 swede kevin

Wash your mouth out Dave, mentioning the unspeakable calibre. 270 for another 270 although there could be a 6.5 calibre rifle finding it way into my cabinet soon, not a swede though.

Stu
While I don’t see the need for a 375 for UK deer if you own one for use on over seas game you sure as hell need to shot it at targets at the very least. I would want to be totally familiar with a rifle before I hunted buff’ your life could depend on it. Also the big bullets would work well on boar, so if you have convinced them you have good reason for the rifle it is a farce for them to say you can have the rifle but no ammo for it. Then you try to say we have no reason for suspicion of some firearms departments.

ATB

Tahr

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

Wash your mouth out Dave, mentioning the unspeakable calibre. 270 for another 270 although there could be a 6.5 calibre rifle finding it way into my cabinet soon, not a swede though.

Stu
While I don’t see the need for a 375 for UK deer if you own one for use on over seas game you sure as hell need to shot it at targets at the very least. I would want to be totally familiar with a rifle before I hunted buff’ your life could depend on it. Also the big bullets would work well on boar, so if you have convinced them you have good reason for the rifle it is a farce for them to say you can have the rifle but no ammo for it. Then you try to say we have no reason for suspicion of some firearms departments.

ATB

Tahr

You put up a good argument Kevin I will give you that but like you say even you cant see a use for it on game in this country.

Maybe the police who have granted a certificate for a 375 who are at the moment should consider allowing the purchase ,with a condition that it may not be used in the pursuit of game in this country, but will allow purchase of amunition for the sole purpose of the F.C holder to use for zeroing of the rifle on recognized ranges only, and limiting the purchase of such accordingly .
I can see why any force is reluctant to grant the use for any other purpose,
Neither am I sure what the Home Office guidlines are in such a cal but my view is they arnt acting unreasonable just acting cautious, lets face it would you really want them to act differently where public safety is concerned.
Regards
Stu

 

[Paul at Fechan]

While I don’t see the need for a 375 for UK deer

wo! hold on there that's a bit iffy isn't it??

my .223 delivers 1100 ft/lb of energy to the roe I shoot that weigh say 50lb ish
my .375 delivers 4400 ft/lb of energy that I would like to use on my reds that weight 240lb ish not the 350lb things down south

.223 or roe delivers about 22 ft/lb per lb but the 375 h&h only delivers about 18 ft/lb per lb to reds. So actually the .223 delivers more energy per pound on roe than the .375 would on reds.

Please give a logical reason why you don't see a need for .375 on red deer say especially when they might need dropped in the rides between dense forestry blocks. I shoot my roe with my .308 usually sending them 2700 ft/lb at muzzle so thats 54 ft/lb per pound.... nearly 3 times the energy per pound a red would get with the .375 but that's fine and every is happy?

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

wo! hold on there that's a bit iffy isn't it??

my .223 delivers 1100 ft/lb of energy to the roe I shoot that weigh say 50lb ish
my .375 delivers 4400 ft/lb of energy that I would like to use on my reds that weight 240lb ish not the 350lb things down south

.223 or roe delivers about 22 ft/lb per lb but the 375 h&h only delivers about 18 ft/lb per lb to reds. So actually the .223 delivers more energy per pound on roe than the .375 would on reds.

Please give a logical reason why you don't see a need for .375 on red deer say especially when they might need dropped in the rides between dense forestry blocks. I shoot my roe with my .308 usually sending them 2700 ft/lb at muzzle so thats 54 ft/lb per pound.... nearly 3 times the energy per pound a red would get with the .375 but that's fine and every is happy?

A good analytical exercise that Paul

 

[Orion]

A good analytical exercise that Paul

Except that you are not shooting the 'whole' animal (mass or weight) with any of the examples given. Otherwise the likes of WDM 'Karamojo' Bell wouldn't have been so successful in downing Jumbos with the 7x57.

 

[Tamus]

Except that you are not shooting the 'whole' animal (mass or weight) with any of the examples given. Otherwise the likes of WDM 'Karamojo' Bell wouldn't have been so successful in downing Jumbos with the 7x57.

Good analysis there, oh mighty Nimrod, Orion

Bell would have been a right pain on here though, wouldn't he?

Headshooting Jumbos with a veritable pea shooter!!!

 

[Orion]

Bell would have been a right pain on here though, wouldn't he?

Headshooting Jumbos with a veritable pea shooter!!!

I always thought he would have made a good postie - invariably getting them through the 'letterbox'.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Orion, whatever floats your boat to achieve the same measure of lethal effectiveness on a deer that is proportionately larger through bullet trauma to the vital organs of the chest cavity, the projectile should deliver the same proportionate amount of kinetic energy relative to projectile size and not just an increase in velocity say to avoid frangible results and degradation of performance. The organs are bigger on larger deer are they not and need more punch to do the same damage

I would not argue that a bullet kills when the key organs are ruptured but where a deer has increased thickness of skin, bone and internal mass before a hard working bullet begins to do the important work, having more is clearly and advantage over less.

Having watched both reds and fallow disappear into cover with perfectly placed .243 shots you have to consider would more gun have been better for the deer. Why don't the roe make a run when tickled with the .308 but sometimes they have a little trot with the .223?



Size does matter..... Just thought I'd mention.

 

[Orion]

.................... to achieve the same measure of lethal effectiveness on a deer that is proportionately larger through bullet trauma to the vital organs of the chest cavity, the projectile should deliver the same proportionate amount of kinetic energy relative to projectile size and not just an increase in velocity say to avoid frangible results and degradation of performance.

Paul, where does your attempted comparison of energy ft/lb per pound of bodyweight shrink down to take acount of only the vital area, or does it just invalidate the theory?

The organs are bigger on larger deer are they not and need more punch to do the same damage

Are you really saying that the heart of a red deer needs more 'punch' than a roe deer's heart to cause lethal wounding? I'm talking about the effect from any deer legal calibre here.

I would not argue that a bullet kills when the key organs are ruptured but where a deer has increased thickness of skin, bone and internal mass before a hard working bullet begins to do the important work, having more is clearly and advantage over less.

And of course the selection of the correct 'hard working bullet' (and it's placement on/in the animal), has a lot more bearing on the eventual outcome than just 'going large'. Again, referring to any deer legal calibre/cartridge in use in the UK.

Having watched both reds and fallow disappear into cover with perfectly placed .243 shots you have to consider would more gun have been better for the deer. Why don't the roe make a run when tickled with the .308 but sometimes they have a little trot with the .223?

And I'm just as sure that there are plenty, myself included, who can also give some anecdotal examples that 'prove' the opposite is just as true.

Size does matter..... Just thought I'd mention.

As does the way you use it. No point in hitting any deer with 54 ft/lb per pound if you only take a leg off is there?

BTW. You might have gathered from my other posts that I am totally in favour of the owner of a .375 being permitted to use it for any species for which his/her FAC is already conditioned - if used safely, (as all firearms should be of course), then IMHO it represents no more or less danger to the public than any other deer legal calibre. I just don't think your comparison of ft/lb per pound of total bodyweight stands up as a valid arguement to support it.

 

[Paul at Fechan]

The ft/lb per pound comparison is solid logic. The vital area is greater on large deer and so is the size of their organs inside that area compared to small deer so the relative damage caused by the same bullet would be less. That's obvious and what I was getting at with organ size.

A deer that is 5 times the size of another will still be killed with the same bullet being legal for both but I was hoping you'd accept the dynamic that to achieve the same efficiency of kill the relative energy needed is proportionate to size.

What kills a deer when a chest shot misses the heart is the collapse of blood pressure and oxygen to the brain from the damage caused by the bullet. The amount of damage the bullet causes will determine how long this will take.

We are all entitled to believe what we want

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

The ft/lb per pound comparison is solid logic. The vital area is greater on large deer and so is the size of their organs inside that area compared to small deer so the relative damage caused by the same bullet would be less. That's obvious and what I was getting at with organ size.

A deer that is 5 times the size of another will still be killed with the same bullet being legal for both but I was hoping you'd accept the dynamic that to achieve the same efficiency of kill the relative energy needed is proportionate to size.

What kills a deer when a chest shot misses the heart is the collapse of blood pressure and oxygen to the brain from the damage caused by the bullet. The amount of damage the bullet causes will determine how long this will take.

We are all entitled to believe what we want

Well if know one else is with your simple anology I am for what its worth Paul

 

[Range Master]

Obviously no sailors aboard here ,nice to hear some FACs getting sorted prompt, posted my renewal for SG/FAC and have been told it will take at least 7 weeks to process the area is northumbria