what car?
- Thread starter geth
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caorach
Well-Known Member
This might be a good general point but the problem a lot of us seem to be having is specifically which "anything" should we buy? For the person who stalks/fishes/shoots maybe 100 days per year but who has to go to work, or the supermarket, or park in a high-rise carpark on another 200 days per year the problem is that there is actually surprisingly little choice, and that choice seems to be getting smaller every year. Sure you could keep two cars, but then you have a lot more cost plus for people like myself who effectively live in two places which car do you take with you when you move from place A to place B? What if you take the VW Golf to place B but the fishing is really good and you need to get out some very remote and rough tracks that need AT tyres and 4WD? What if you need to nip into town to do some shopping but you have the pick-up and it doesn't fit in the high rise carpark and the VW Golf is at the other end of the country? In the past the old shape X-Trail pretty much filled this niche, these days I can see nothing to replace it.
The one SUV that does appear to handle off-road reasonably well and is hybrid (only. There is no other engine configuration) is the RAV4. The fact that it's hybrid is what put me off. Do you know how much it costs to replace the batteries in a hybrid at the moment? The figures that I have seen are several thousand quid. And if the batteries go, there's no guarantee that the car will work at all. I got cold feet and went for old technology.
caorach
Well-Known Member
That could be Paul but for someone like myself a car that runs on batteries is sod all use as once you've driven uphill, in low ratio, for 20 miles out a remote track there isn't much chance of charging it up when you reach the end
Also batteries do "wear out" now I know that engines do as well but we've kind of got to the point with engines where you can keep good ones running for a very long time, and you can often repair engines at reasonable cost. I think Tesla will only warranty their battery for 8 years and that has to give some sort of indication of the expected life, and by that time its range will be greatly reduced. I've seen replacement prices over £10k, no idea how true that is. However a normal diesel pickup that is 5 - 6 years old is still worth a few quid, and will still do maybe 300 miles on a tank, whereas a battery powered one might have £10k of repairs coming real soon. This must change the dynamic in terms of what a second hand car is worth.
caorach
Well-Known Member
Right, I've seen them. A mate drove one, actually I think it was the RAV4 and it might belong to his wife, anyhow his view was that the wee engine was revving its nuts off to keep the electric bit working at motorway speeds. In saying that I've been in a few hybrid taxis and not noticed that as a problem so I don't know.
Electric motors would have some advantages in a 4WD as in theory they produce an awful lot of torque at startup and that would work well for towing as you'd have a lot of energy available at low revs, in saying that with a diesel you can compensate by simply applying more revs
However, I'm still extremely wary of the battery technology, I've very limited knowledge of battery technology but have never met a battery that didn't degrade, usually significantly and rapidly, with time no matter how sophisticated the charging system. In a way I think that battery powered cars are an answer desperately looking for a question and that they are simply not a good use of the technology, while they might work for some people I simply can't think of a single reason why the world needs them. The only one I can vaguely imagine being valid is air pollution in cities but the evidence seems to be that they simply export pollution from rich areas to poorer areas, as with most of the virtue signalling "green" solutions:
I've just replaced an 05 Vitara (brilliant, utterly reliable, go anywhere but now high mileage and thirsty for frequent long distance trips to Scotland) and had the same dilemma - what to replace it with. I eventually went for a 14 plate (older 'boxy' shape) XTrail. Impressed so far with it's ability as a stalking/shooting/fishing motor. It's a lovely comfy long distance cruiser, economical enough (av 43.6 mpg on an 800 mile Scottish round trip), and it seems to have enough sensible off-road capability to cope with what I've thrown at it so far (2wd/4wd - though really this is an electronic wheel spin control - but also the diff can be locked up completely). And the boot seems big enough to accomodate a red carcass (not yet tested!) without collapsing the rear seats. You can still find low-ish mileage ones about and I think it's a decent enough choice for a recreational stalker/shooter who needs it to go to the office in. But I agree, the choice of decent but sensible off-road capable 'normal' vehicles is fast disappearing.
I got 2 reds in a jimny, they will fit lol
Just to prove your point, had to send a Prius to Toyota a couple of years ago as we couldn't repair it, the cost was over 2.5grand because of a fault in the motor. I did the big ends on my d22 pick up, new boots all round (600 quid on there own), new cv's and boots, discs and pads and a full service for 850 quid. Says a lot about the hybrids, know enough people who HAVE owned them and got rid of them because in there words 'there shockingly bad' lolThat could be Paul but for someone like myself a car that runs on batteries is sod all use as once you've driven uphill, in low ratio, for 20 miles out a remote track there isn't much chance of charging it up when you reach the end
Also batteries do "wear out" now I know that engines do as well but we've kind of got to the point with engines where you can keep good ones running for a very long time, and you can often repair engines at reasonable cost. I think Tesla will only warranty their battery for 8 years and that has to give some sort of indication of the expected life, and by that time its range will be greatly reduced. I've seen replacement prices over £10k, no idea how true that is. However a normal diesel pickup that is 5 - 6 years old is still worth a few quid, and will still do maybe 300 miles on a tank, whereas a battery powered one might have £10k of repairs coming real soon. This must change the dynamic in terms of what a second hand car is worth.
The RAV 4 Hybrid is what Toyota call a "self charging hybrid" which is the most disingenuous bit of marketing I've seen in a very long time.
It does indeed self charge, but requires special self charging fluid to make that happen. That fluid is more commonly known as petrol
It's exactly the same system that Toyota have been using in the Prius for about 20 years and the same as in my 11 year old Lexus RX400H
It is utterly reliable and the batteries last longer than the car. There are loads of Prius used as taxis in New York that have over 250,000 miles on them and absolutely no battery issues.
The problem is that the range on pure battery power is pish - less than 1 mile.
The system is really designed for town driving where the engine switches off whenever the vehicle is stopped and is powered by the electric motor when crawling along in traffic.
On my 400H it's also designed for additional overall power meaning that the 3.3 litre V6 petrol engine, when combined with both electric motors, produces as much power as a 4 litre engine (hence the 400 name)
For motorway driving the petrol engine will run all the time and it will be much more expensive to tun than a diesel.
FWIW if I was looking for a hybrid vehicle with any sort of off road capability, it would be the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
This has a pure electric range of up to 30 miles (depending on how you drive it) with a 2.4 litre petrol engine which can be used to power the car directly or charge the battery to keep it running on electric power.
It's not as roughy toughy as a Shogun and the battery pack is a wee bit too low for serious off road work, but I've often thought it would be the perfect "stealth" foxing vehicle since in pure electric mode it is virtually silent.
Cheers
Bruce
I retired just over a year ago after 40 years as an AA Patrol. You would not believe how much time we spent sorting out Land Rover products. Yes I know you can't sort them at the roadside so it goes on a truck, then replacement car etc etc. People asked me what should I buy and the answer was always Jap or Korean. When planning my retirement I promised myself a 4wd van, as we have dogs. luggage, caravan, etc. Transit ,VW 4motion poor reliability so we now have......
Ssangyong Turismo, rear bench seats come out and you have the biggest estate car ever, 4 nice seats and a bit of a rolling barge. No centre diff so 4wd is a bit primitive but does all I ask. 40 mpg on a run Norfolk to Fife.
Ssangyong Turismo, rear bench seats come out and you have the biggest estate car ever, 4 nice seats and a bit of a rolling barge. No centre diff so 4wd is a bit primitive but does all I ask. 40 mpg on a run Norfolk to Fife.
Mick Miller
Well-Known Member
To discount a petrol Forester then turn around and recommend a pick up (choose any) is just daft. 30mpg average on urban and 50mpg sub. What's a pick up do to the gallon (presuming you can find a petrol one and not a diesel with expensive to replace dpf)?
Honest John users report 36.5 avg for the 2ltr lineatronic, as opposed to 31avg for a hilux.
A diesel forester gives 44mpg avg BTW, just to compare like with like.
Honest John users report 36.5 avg for the 2ltr lineatronic, as opposed to 31avg for a hilux.
A diesel forester gives 44mpg avg BTW, just to compare like with like.
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Another Hilux. You know It makes sense.
If you just need more space though then get a VW transporter and put windows and seats in it. They do a 4motion one too that is all wheel drive.
But, a Hilux is better value for money but just doesn’t have as much internal space.
Kindest regards, Olaf
Essexsussex
Well-Known Member
Exactly what we did but petrol because apparently that is more eco warrior friendly. Whatever. A 4wd one of these is a practical good value reliable car. The 1.5 diesel is the same engine in Nissan qashqai proven millions of miles over in loads of vehicles. They are Renault based but the technology is ten years behind the new renaults which suits me just fine and is proven.I ended up getting a 4wd Dacia Duster 1.5 diesel. Cheap and cheerful maybe not as big as the xtrail,etc but good all round so far good clearance and small turning circle All I am doing is putting on AT tyres for winter and carrying a shovel
Pay your money and take your chances but you could have a nearly new one of these for the price of an 80,000 mile German thing I expect.
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