Whats happening in the countryside!?

[Dickyboy]

I've read quite a few posts recently about - How do I get stalking? Why won't people let me stalk?


Is there anyone else here who worked for it? By this I mean to an interest in all things countryside. I can't understand why people expect landowners to say "yes off you go take your high powered rifle off onto my land and livelihood and blaze away".

I was a keen shooter but only air rifles and full bore rifles at the range. At 18 I decided to change careers and get into the countryside....I helped a keeper out at all opportunities(which happened to be full time) after 6 months I asked if I could shoot a couple of pigeons and rabbits off the bottom of the field with the air rifle, then I was allowed to walk around the area that I knew well, for rabbits and squirrels when I said I have been seeing foxes I was told to get my SGC and I was allowed on the small bit to shoot squirrels and foxes with the shotgun....so on and so on...untill now I am a paid keeper with all the shooting I can dream of.

Infact my friends have got some of the lesser bits that I've been begged to do for ferreting etc.

I do not say this to show off but to illustrate that trust is what you need to earn.

I believe learning about the countryside is the first step to shooting, Respect for quarry and the essence of stalking. The majority of my daytime foxes have been shot because the wildlife told me to get my gun as charlie was about, I learnt this from being out with a good keeper.

We have around 3-4 lads a year come to "help" We ake bets to how long they will last before saying...."so how often do you go shooting?" "do you shoot alot" or the best/worst "can we go shooting now" when you explain to them that keepering is more than shooting and we only tend to in our "spare" time they lose interest and dissappear

Out of all the people who have come to "help" one has stood the test, he's a rotten shot but I keep taking him out lamping and shooting because he helps. He picks up the rabbits he helps put up the rearing field he is about to come out in the rain and get in a crow trap with me to get soaked and covered in **** because he wants to learn. I haven't let him shoot a fox yet but he does shoot the odd unlucky rabbit. He shot his first buck with me last year as a thank you for his hard work.

So to end all the moaning of why can't I get land, its so unfair its so expensive get out there and help someone, learn about the wildlife and countryside. Shooting should be an extension of the love of the countryside. Not a passion to kill!!!

 

[callie]

So to end all the moaning of why can't I get land, its so unfair its so expensive get out there and help someone, learn about the wildlife and countryside. Shooting should be an extension of the love of the countryside. Not a passion to kill!!!

+1 on that

 

[Redneck]

Not all of us can have that life, your holier than thou attitude is just as bad as some of the whingers. The country cannot run with us all doing what is ideal.

I like probably the majority of people on here work reasonably hard to enjoy what leisure time i have spending some hard earned at country sports. Been doing it now for a long time and contributed along the way however i can.

Too many people on here finding high horses.

 

[Tamus]

Not all of us can have that life, your holier than thou attitude is just as bad as some of the whingers. The country cannot run with us all doing what is ideal.

I like probably the majority of people on here work reasonably hard to enjoy what leisure time i have spending some hard earned at country sports. Been doing it now for a long time and contributed along the way however i can.

Too many people on here finding high horses.

Well, Dickyboy's "high horse" will win more races than yours, methinks.

 

[norma 308]

think dicky boys attitude is just a sensible one with keepers pay low enough help around the shoot is rewarded with trust and eventually some shooting not cash .i have a couple of guys who do alot for me during the seasons they have there f/a tickets on here and as long as they let me know when they come on the plot and when they leave i let em sit for vermin etc ,as said they stood the test of time and were reliable !

 

[crouch valley]

I'm afraid Dickyboy I find your post quite offensive. I to am a game keeper and I started of the same way I learnt the way of the country side from my uncle who was a head keeper on a large estate I started helping him at the age of ten and I never got to even touch a gun until I was seventeen. I to am now in the same position were I have people come to help me on the shoot some have become very close friends while some others have been let go through one reason or another. Unfortunately I live in a part of Essex That has hardly any deer maybe the odd muntjac If there was deer in my area I to would not have a problem as I do a lot of vermin control for a lot of other farms in my area. So I believe I have done my apprentice of learning about the country side ive done about 30 years learning Im DSC level 1 and just waiting for my two to come through and im still learning. I believe were you live is a fair bit to do with what you get yes you are lucky to have deer on you and be in the same position as me. I am a lot better of than most regarding I have as much vermin shooting as I can cope with. How come you wont let your chap shoot a fox as in your words he's a rotten shot but you let him shoot a buck. Since posting my post about stalking rights yesterday I have just picked up 250 acres of land with a few fallow on its not the best piece of ground but it a start. Not every one is in our position and a lot of keepers forget that.

 

[Redneck]

Well, Dickyboy's "high horse" will win more races than yours, methinks.

Ah well opinions are like a!!!!!!!! everybody has one. Im in no race

 

[Tamus]

Ah well opinions are like a!!!!!!!! everybody has one. Im in no race

Indeed... and most of them stink (we know)

My point, and I think it was Dickyboy's, is ... Far too many people rock up at landowners' doors asking to shoot on their land and offer nothing valid in return Bottles of whisky, for instance, are all very well but they don't pay the bills, the offer of work can really help though...

Dickyboy was illustrating appropriate ways in which one might go about earning some sport and what thinking should be behind it... Not really mounting a "high horse" was he? ... Simply advising the moaning minnies that their attitude is wrong.

Now, many people are like you (I'm sure) and work hard for their leisure and it is perfectly fair that the likes of you should buy your sport and expect good service into the bargain.

What is not fair is moochers who want it all for no effort on their part and consider a refusal as a***hole'ish behaviour on the part of a land owner.

ps. You are in a race...though you may not choose to believe it.

 

[Redneck]

Indeed... and most of them stink (we know)

My point, and I think it was Dickyboy's, is ... Far too many people rock up at landowners' doors asking to shoot on their land and offer nothing valid in return Bottles of whisky, for instance, are all very well but they don't pay the bills, the offer of work can really help though...

Dickyboy was illustrating appropriate ways in which one might go about earning some sport and what thinking should be behind it... Not really mounting a "high horse" was he? ... Simply advising the moaning minnies that their attitude is wrong.

Now, many people are like you (I'm sure) and work hard for their leisure and it is perfectly fair that the likes of you should buy your sport and expect good service into the bargain.

What is not fair is moochers who want it all for no effort on their part and consider a refusal as a***hole'ish behaviour on the part of a land owner.

ps. You are in a race...though you may not choose to believe it.

Argh Now we are maybe coming nearer to the same conclusions. I have lived and hunted in a few different countries due to work, and been a member of small groups who are avid outdoor sportsman. I am not a member of the well to do shooting fraternity myself but they have a place in the big picture i think. Big estates that employ many people need big incomes to cover costs. I am sure that our professional members will vouch for that.
I personally prefer the small type syndicate, or shoots based on a group of friends who muck in together. But in todays world its not that easy to always dedicate the time to create the idyllic scenario that seems to be the thread here.

 

[Dickyboy]

Thank you Tamus, Understood my point exactly, I have no problem with people paying for sport in fact I need people to as that is my business but what I am cross about is the people saying "I want shooting" and wonder why farmers will not let an un known person wander around with guns on their land. No amount of money would allow anyone to have shooting on the estate I work on, he doesn't need the money or the hassle of sorting out a problem if someone where to shoot dangerously. He wants someone who has proven they can be trusted. No idyllic scenario but an interest in learning rather than shooting would be refreshing to see!

Crouch Valley if you have so much land to shoot vermin on, how come you haven't offered to take someone from here out vermin shooting in return for some deer shooting. Alot of people I wold guess would like a change of scenery(it would also set you apart from the freeloaders) And are you not doing exactly what you are moaning about in your thread! Keeping all this land just for yourself. You might have found that there is people on here with deer land near you that they can't get to often enought to do a proper job but don't want to give up their bit of land, you could have helped them, be relieving the pressure of acheiving a cull by doing the bits they can't. I infact do this, I shoot some roe for someone on my neighbouring ground as he would have lost it if I hadn't, he helps me in my busy time. He asked me to help him as he knew I wouldn't poach his stalking rights. If I could trust more people for one reason or another I could do this more. I also have too much rabbit land so a lad who helps me does it, the job gets done and he has his first bit of permission. I'm afraid by telling people you have been trying to outbid people on land you may have blotted your copybook! Hopefully I am wrong and you can set up an arrangement with someone.

The buck was standing very still at 50yards, the reason being that a buck is a much bigger target than a fox and if you miss a buck, the only trouble you get is a couple more leaves get eaten. Miss a fox and that night it might kill a 1000 pheasants, Also foxes learn alot quicker. You don't normally get to miss an easy fox twice. If we see a fox that is off the shoot in the daytime then he will get to shoot it but that will be rare as if I'm sitting out for a fox then its on the shoot.

 

[finnbear270]

Word of mouth amongst landowners & those who have control of ground has worked for me since the 70's, I always work on the maxim , "They only see you as safe as your last shot". I fully agree with fox being very quick on the uptake too.

 

[Dickyboy]

Finnbear you are right great maxim too. Its just getting that initial foot in the door. Hanging around long eough and ready to fill a void.

 

[243fallow]

100% right dickyboy

 

[243fallow]

sorry dickyboy

 

[limulus]

Just because some of us dont work in the countryside doesnt mean we dont have a passion for it and yearn for a greater understanding/involvement in it. Since my early teens I have been involved in beating, fishing (sea, course then latterly fly) and have owned a fart gun since the age of 15. From the age of 17 I worked and do so to this day. This leaves me most weekends free. I also have a family that occasionally like to see me so Sundays are a sacred family day, non negotiable. So what does this leave me? Saturdays. the day most farmers dont like to be disturbed because its usually some city scrote after a bit of free mucking about on his land.
I have been a regular beater on my local estate for many years (yes taking days holiday during the foulest weather for 15-25 quid hard labour) and walked mile after mile during the waterloo cup when we had it (dont get me going on that subject, lying ******* politicians).
During summer months I would often go out and just sit at the edge of a pond watching where the tench were feeding or watching ratty going about his business. I learned a lot.
I was allowed to shoot rats at the feeders with the fart gun and the odd rabbit.
Getting older and having more disposable income allowed me to buy shooting opportunities.
Going shooting introduced me to other people with similar interests and, through word of mouth and damned hard work I now have several permissions for pigeon, rabbit, deer etc.
I suppose what I'm getting around to saying is some people, through their chosen direction, become ingrained in the land, many of us though have no choice but to sit on the sides and accept what scraps are thrown our way. For some these scraps might never come but their love for the countryside and whats involved with managing that countryside is just as passionate and fulfilling.

 

[Rake Aboot]

Personally , in my area the people with a genuine interest in wildlife etc(myself,,been at it for 30 odd years) are the people who are unable to get stalking due to greed and the old boy network ensuring that most deer are sold to the highest paying foriegner etc,, so in my view the initial post in this thread is totally wong and yes even a bit offensive to some,, basically,,if you don`t have the "contacts" don`t even ask !!!,, exactly whats wrong with a lot of stalking ,,in Scotland at least.

ATB

 

[norma 308]

when my boss the land owner gets asked by someone not known to him about shooting on his land he always refers he or she to me ,i would then invite that person along on shoot day to beat and then shoot on beaters day , i very rarely just let a tom ,dick or harriet on the shoot without some sort of background on them .i dont throw them scraps i just let them in slowly to see if they are reliable ,safe ,trustworthy .i have a chap who does my game cart coming to shoot a few rabbits this week ,he has his f/a cert on here as do several others .another does dog training on sundays ,some shoot the pidgeon and ferret ,i only have munty on here so often i am in the same boat i get some great invites because my best mate does the game cart on an estate 30+ days and we are a bit of a double act and i buy some stalking too ,i am always on the look out for new ground and it is hard to come across ,wouldnt step on anyones toes and havent got a pot of gold to blow on it .some folks are greedy lucky for me i know one or two generous folk too .keep on trying I DO !

 

[Paul at Fechan]

The power of word of mouth in mighty. Do a good job on vermin and doors will open with rewards awaiting your aim.

 

[The Singing Stalker]

Interesting this. Like everything there are three side to every story. Mine is something along the lines of Work all week can be difficult to find time in my own life never mind helping out for 5 years before some old codger decides he will let me shoot an air rifle at a tin can. (I can feel some necks extending here. ) Nor do I have the balls to just knock on some farmers door and say "Hello Mister, can I come and shoot up your land with my 50 cal, trample your fields and generally make a mess."
I spose for me it is who you know, who can get you that first opening, whether it be airgun or whatever. If they let you in then it is up to you to prove your worth to them, because lets face it. If I had land I would want to know the calibre of the person that I let shoot on it. Deer seems to be a different ball game as there is a lot of money in it. Not so much in the bunny bashing or foxing stakes.
I managed to get some land, not many deer on it, but he has rabbits and foxes and if we see something wrong we tell him. I managed to get into the land with some friends who have been shooting there for a number of years. They trust me, the farmer trusts them. Now hopefully the farmer trusts me. Well I haven't managed to shoot any of his prize boars yet.

Do I have a point; I don't know...yes, actually I do. If you lot who got a snot on over peoples opinion were sitting in a pub together you wouldn't get a snot on. Cos in reality the written word winds people really fast but face to face doesn't, mainly I spose because you can see a smile or hear an explanation.

Happy days

 

[Dickyboy]

Limulus -mYou are exactly the sort of person who would be welcome to help me with sitting in highseats, you have done/are exactly what I was talking about how to get shooting, unfortunately you have had no luck.

Norma so you enter others in the same way, let them be on the shoot a fair bit,