If you shot it with a torch at midnight, then if your FAC is conditioned for humane dispatch its absolutely not an issue is it?
When does it become humane dispatch
- Thread starter nun_hunter
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If you shot it with a torch at midnight, then if your FAC is conditioned for humane dispatch its absolutely not an issue is it?
The tramp
Well-Known Member
No, because you are creating the need for a 'humane dispatch' by an illegal act of shooting during the prohibited 'darkness' hours.
But, if you are out doing a spot of fox control, and come across a roe buck trapped in a fence in December, then it doesn't matter what time of day it is, it is then HD as even if you were able to cut it free, the chances of it dying from stress/shock etc is high.
You can't use 'animal welfare' to try and cover your arse for an illegal act, nor should you put anything shot under HD into the food chain, as it's not shot by legal hunting methods.
And guys, if you had a .22 conditioned for 'rabbit' only, but used it to do the right thing by putting a suffering animal out of it's misery, do you really think that you'd get prosecuted for breaking a condition ? No, your more likely to get prosecuted for allowing the animal to suffer by NOT dispatching it.
I think you mis understood the question .... I was referring to the question posed where a deer had been wounded and asked whether the follow up shot was HD ... my response being that if the follow up wasn't until after dark and using a torch then if the FAC was conditioned for HD then there would not be an issue.
Well its your opinion that the Animal Welfare Act trumps your FAC conditions ... you have no evidence of that I assume.
BDS notes on Humane Dispatch clearly states that you must have a HD condition before using a firearm for that purpose .... I suppose they have got it wrong too??
buzzip
Active Member
Under the Animal Welfare Act 2006 we have a duty to not cause unnecessary suffering. This means that whether we are stalking or dispatching an injured animal, we must not cause the animal to suffer. You are committing an offence if your action, or failure to act, would cause an animal to suffer.
In my opinion this would cover selection of the correct calibre or rifle, shot placement etc.
Sorry a different track to this thread.
In my opinion this would cover selection of the correct calibre or rifle, shot placement etc.
Sorry a different track to this thread.
Yep I agree.
I just get the impression from this and similar threads that some individuals think that the Animal Welfare Act overrides the conditions on their FACs ... so are comfortable with dispatching deer with a rifle of any calibre, regardless of whether they have used HD as part of their good reason or not .... happy if this were not the case but have no reason to believe it is.
With a shotgun of course it is not an issue.
The tramp
Well-Known Member
A follow up shot is not 'humane dispatch'. It's simply the right thing to do, as long as your initial shot is legal, if it takes until after dark to find then finish off the beast, so be it.
As for having 'Humane Dispatch' as a condition, no, AOLQ covers it. I'm registered with my police service for HD call outs, and when I did my last variation, I asked about it, and was told 'it's quarry, it's legal, no problem as you have AOLQ'
Now, really, think about it. Who in their right mind is going to prosecute an FAC holder for breaking a condition for doing 'the responsible thing' by dispatching an injured deer ? Nobody. The press would have a field day. Ok, if you took the yellow water then you would probably get a ticking off, but just don't take the pi55.
The aRSePCA are far more likely to bring on a prosecution for allowing an animal to suffer
Certainly, if you want to cover your arse, then ask for a condition that specifically states 'humane dispatch' if your so worried
bobby1234
Well-Known Member
while reading this it has reminded me of an incident that happen earlier this year. while leaving one of my permissions i hit a doe with my jeep. it managed to make it over the fence onto my permission, at this point it collapsed. It then made multiple attempts to get up but its back end was limp. I put it out of its misery there and then.
My question is what would happen if this had happened a mile along the road on land i dont have permission on?
My question is what would happen if this had happened a mile along the road on land i dont have permission on?
Legally you need permission. If the animal was truly suffering then I would have absolutely no hesitation in shooting it.
I do believe the Animal Welfare Act is a very strong defence. It would never be in the public's interests to prosecute anyone in such circumstances. There is always a 'public interest' test with the CPS.
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
This would be covered by the defence that you believed permission would be granted by the land owner if they had know the reasons prior. This is what a lot of poachers use as a defence, "I was so hungry and just feeding my family, I honestly believed they wouldn't mi d me taking one little deer to feed my starving children". Any reasonable person would/should allow you to enter their land with the food intent of ending suffering.
The police use this when in immediate pursuit of a suspect and have to access private land that ordinarily would need prior permission or a warrant.
Uncle Buck
Well-Known Member
Humane dispatch is the deliberate culling of an injured or wounded animal to avoid unnecessary suffering and to prevent the animal from causing injury to others whilst it is in distress. The act is commonly associated with deer which as been hit by traffic, it's normally nominated volunteers who have been trained and carry the necessary equipment who are called to carry out the duty. however there is no specific limitation on who is legally permitted or responsible for humane dispatch and those who encounter this situation often, or work with deer and other animals are eligible to apply for an exemption (hand gun) under section 5 on the grounds of humane dispatch.
Atb, Buck.
Ps.irrespective of in/out of season...if not on your own ground get
permission first !
Atb, Buck.
Ps.irrespective of in/out of season...if not on your own ground get
permission first !
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SL6.5
Well-Known Member
Probably very sound advice. But, what offence (if any) do you imagine if no advice were sought or given. Please bear in mind that a suffering animal requires urgent attention.
Good sense from Apache, as always when this subject crops up.
Surely common sense applies, if an incident is serious enough for you to be there with a rifle (by request) then with a second opinion you dispatch because you have to. If i was travelling and happened to have my rifle and came across an rta incident i wouldnt be pulling my rifle out if i was on my own but a quick phone call or presence of a sensible 3rd party (who was in agreement an animal should be dispatched) then i would take my chances with the FAO (in the context of a situation). No FAO is going to punish you for doing the right thing sensibly and safely for humane dispatch out of necessity.
If its during a stalk - use your head, its stalking. If you take the first shot with a hit, there is no going back until the job is complete.
If its during a stalk - use your head, its stalking. If you take the first shot with a hit, there is no going back until the job is complete.
After a stalking outing, A hind had been hit on the road by a car coming in the opposite direction. after a 15min conversation with the most senior police person over the phone I was given permission to shoot and put it out of its suffering. A couple of days later I read the SNH (I think) guidelines. It stated that the deer must be despatched to prevent suffering by the most human way possible, if I had used a hammer(a bit brutal) it would have been ok . Since this event I have spoken to my FAO, they advised me that I was breaking the condition of my FAC if I had not been given prior permission from a senior officer. But the chances of any follow up from the police if I did not have permission would be none as I had a independent witness who was there at the time and common sense would prevail
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