why is it hard too get out stalking or get into a stalking syndicate

[rutland]

When I first started 15ish years ago I had to pay for every stalk I had. But I used these stalks to gain experience and knowledge from people who have done it for years. I took all the qualifications I could and learnt as much as I could cram in. So know when I meet a farmer I can confidently speak about the rate they breed, the effect on their crops and woodland and the whole biodiversity with a backing of experience and knowledge. Showing this confidence and the fact you have taken the time and energy to take these qualifications does give you an edge. I now don’t pay for any stalking land at all and today have just been offered another estate because he’s heard what that we process our own deer so he would like us to control his deer in return for oven ready venison.
Trust is also the key. Farmers talk and trust is hard earned. It is also very hard for a single stalker to put the required amount of time to adequately control some of these farms so it might be better to have a good friend onboard so you can share the hours needed.
This has all worked for me and we now have 11 stalkers in our group.

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Which arguably is understandable, but if you have a DSC1 or (as in my case) an NRA Bisley membership I wonder what else you need to do in order to prove your worth...it feels like a catch 22 situation to me sometimes

DSC1 and DSC2 are just a start. I've learnt more since I did my DSC2, than I knew before. I've been learning this week. I've got lots more to learn. Getting out with experienced professionals is essential. I've spent 4 days this week following in the footsteps of a stalker with 60 years experience.
Regards
JCS

 

[jarlo]

DSC1 and DSC2 are just a start. I've learnt more since I did my DSC2, than I knew before. I've been learning this week. I've got lots more to learn. Getting out with experienced professionals is essential. I've spent 4 days this week following in the footsteps of a stalker with 60 years experience.
Regards
JCS

I suppose the question is; how do you even get to that point?

 

[rutland]

I suppose the question is; how do you even get to that point?

Pay for stalks. Choose them wisely. Sika Malc would be a good start

 

[Cloudhopper]

I suppose the question is; how do you even get to that point?

Use BASC. Their stalking schemes and contacts will make life much easier and remove the risk and uncertainty.
CH

 

[jcampbellsmith]

I suppose the question is; how do you even get to that point?

I guess I've been lucky given that my father stalked and I followed in his footsteps on many occasions. However from the late 90's I've also tried to get a paid day out each year with other stalkers. Getting going is hard, I was in Edinburgh for 7 years before a chance encounter at a BDS meeting opened doors to local stalking.
Good luck.
JCS

 

[75]

Use BASC. Their stalking schemes and contacts will make life much easier and remove the risk and uncertainty.
CH

Hmmm, I’m cynical of this. I think it’s turkeys voting for Christmas in lots of these things. I was a BASC member for many, many years a never made a single stalking contact through them (or the NGO or BDS - not just a BASC knocking thing).

Any permission I have gained has been through trust. Whether that has been working several seasons beating or picking up, or through work with farmers. Most land owners want to know who is wandering their land and not just let an anonymous organisation handle it. Especially one whose committee and most active members use the org as an opportunity to find themselves stalking and not the wider membership community. Not pointed at any single organisation but it definitely happens.

Add into that, we have a small, over populated island with more folk wanting stalking than there available positions.

You need to work out your USP! Build trust but figure out what you can do to help landowners and not the other way around.

 

[grandad of the woods]

I’m going to follow this thread, as a newcomer I do find this of interest.

Before I joined this forum I was told in a conversation with someone who manages deer: “I wish you good luck finding a place on your own”. From that moment I understood that the problem is not even having a FAC or own a rifle, it is land ownership and whoever has land with deer already has someone under perhaps some kind of contract.

That’s my understanding.
Although, as you mentioned syndicates, reading around this forum does show that one must take precautions when applying for a syndicate and should do due diligence - I read @sikamalc post on things to look out for

I don’t really know much more, let’s see what others say

Same here m8
Down here just seems like land is like gold claims
Even in general convo asking people were about they shoot ect it's just "ow you know here and there". Almost like people are to scared to let people tag along just to gain the experience, I'd love to tag along more with people even not to shoot just to tag along and watch and learn ect....... But then again I'm a farther of 7 with a grandchild soooooop time is also a big factor I'm fighting lol

 

[KimE]

I suppose the question is; how do you even get to that point?

You need to start as a teenager, its a problem if you cant find a way too take part of the hunting without paying a guide. We have a different problem we cant find enough hunters to our mooseteam.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Europe is very large with much woodland etc and the villages are well spread out over it so space to hunt is seldom an issue except near large conurbations. The UK and Holland seem to me to be over populated with many of their residents wanting the same land for different uses, horse riding etc. If you are local here the farmers prefer to use you with a lower stalking rights payment than a doctor from far away offering more cash to manage the game levels on their land.

 

[63]

All this said, it’s worth thinking about what you want from your stalking.

My first time around in my 20’s, I was desperate for my own patch, for no real reason beyond it seeming like the logical progression - I’d started shooting as a teenager rabbiting with an air rifle and developed to foxing with a .223. Adding a stalking permission and a bigger rifle was an incremental step at that point.

This time round (in my 40’s) I have a bit more money, but a whole heap less time. I’ve also spent 15 years moving frequently with work, and have no local roots where I now live. My immediate initial thought was I should try and secure my own patch again, but now I’ve had a few ‘pay by the day’ stalks I’ve realised that wouldn’t necessarily suit my needs right now. Thoughts that have crossed my mind:

- as a recreational stalker with a busy day job, it’s nice to be able to pick and choose when I stalk, rather than being beholden to a management plan.

- I can adjust my costs - a paid stalk with carcass typically costs around £150-£200 around here (cull). I can do more or less depending on how flush any given month is, rather than paying up front for a syndicate. Compared to the cost of the syndicates advertised around here I can get out once a month for the whole year at least.

- I can vary it up and stalk different species with different people in different places, rather than doing laps of the same wood all year. (I think I’m going to have a crack for all six species in 2025)

- Every time I stalk with a different guide I learn something new and see a different way of doing business.

Yes - it is expensive and I appreciate prohibitively so for some, but it’s comparable with playing golf, getting drunk in bars or eating in mid priced restaurants. Or, to put it another way, I can have a years stalking for the price of a decent thermal or a Swarovski scope.

 

[Limpo]

The biggest obstacle in getting stalking land is other stalkers imo. Too many stalkers that are established have the rights to five or ten times the amount of land that they can personally shoot, they take it all on to control an area and stymie the "competition" ie other stalkers. I have even turned up at one of my farms to find a stalker who operates about thirty miles away trying to pinch it even though he knew I shot it and who previously I would call a mate of mine! I play my cards closer to my chest now and all my permissions have come from face to face meetings with farmers. If I know them I may ring them but much better bumping into them and having a chat face to face. Also choose a nice day not freezing or ****ing down and offer to control birds, rats or foxes first before you get into deer stalking unless you are on a farm over run with Fallow or Reds, which realistically is a very rare scenario these days unless its a LAC's reserve in which case leave it to the poachers with the night sights.

 

[Erik Hamburger]

hi all!!not a rant just want to know why is it so hard to get into stalking or should I say getting out there!!!you have all your tickets and more but no doors open?the reason I ask is that a few friends are finding it very hard to get onto the stalking seen {thats the way I put it} deer are a problem everywhere and just thought more guns and certificates the better but no!!there finding it hard to get out?it seems like no right away?give a chance?yes not all are up to it but taking under wing comes to hand!show them teach them!but its dosent seem to happen its usually a no or no chance.has anyone else come across this?I know all are not like this but seems to happen a lot {WHY} if someone is keen to go out and help and learn why is it a problem??really frustrates me sometimes.
!JUST WANTING TO KNOW WHY! MORE HAND S THE BETTER!
SEEMS TO BE A CLICK IF THE FACE DOZENT FIT NO CHANCE!
REGARDS SWARO

I think the issue is, for as far as my experience is concerned:

1. I prefer to stalk alone as my success rate on my own is much higher.
2. When I am alone, I can't be late, or cry off if if it wet/cold, or wave my arms and shout 'there is one!!!' , or find out my 'assistant' has forgotten gloves/head/torch/boots.
3. I have had quite a few Stalkers joining my team/group (where I share the Stalking with 2-3 others, typically for larger Landowners) only for them never or rarely to show up, despite it being free to them, they can go as often as they like, and they can keep all the carcasses.
4. Many Stalkers on here will confirm that 'gentleman's agreements' with other Learners/Stalkers sharing your ground or being given help to get a permission are often broken, and therefore this results in an end to the friendship.

The above is of course really unfair towards those who do show commitment, do show up, don't spoil the hunt, and don't go behind your back.
I am very lucky to work with 1/2 dz. Gents on a few different sites, either in their team, or they are in my team, and the working relationship is excellent, and has been for many years, and may it continue for many more years.

I also get quite a few interested people not asking if they can please join me, but telling me that they will join me, 'to carry kit, to drag out carcasses, etc., as if they are doing me a huge favour, and it is an offer I cannot possible refuse.
Oh yes, I can....

 

[grandad of the woods]

I think the issue is, for as far as my experience is concerned:

1. I prefer to stalk alone as my success rate on my own is much higher.
2. When I am alone, I can't be late, or cry off if if it wet/cold, or wave my arms and shout 'there is one!!!' , or find out my 'assistant' has forgotten gloves/head/torch/boots.
3. I have had quite a few Stalkers joining my team/group (where I share the Stalking with 2-3 others, typically for larger Landowners) only for them never or rarely to show up, despite it being free to them, they can go as often as they like, and they can keep all the carcasses.
4. Many Stalkers on here will confirm that 'gentleman's agreements' with other Learners/Stalkers sharing your ground or being given help to get a permission are often broken, and therefore this results in an end to the friendship.

The above is of course really unfair towards those who do show commitment, do show up, don't spoil the hunt, and don't go behind your back.
I am very lucky to work with 1/2 dz. Gents on a few different sites, either in their team, or they are in my team, and the working relationship is excellent, and has been for many years, and may it continue for many more years.

I also get quite a few interested people not asking if they can please join me, but telling me that they will join me, 'to carry kit, to drag out carcasses, etc., as if they are doing me a huge favour, and it is an offer I cannot possible refuse.
Oh yes, I can....

I completely understand that Sid eof thing I'm quite happy to shoot alone and actually enjoy it more but same time I also really want to start stalking but ideally want to do it under the guidance of someone who knows that there doing so it a bit of give n take I suppose but then again I'm on the understanding a gentleman's agreement should never be broke lol shame 90% of this generation think otherwise

 

[Adam Riding]

Apologies I know this is an old thread but just my observations: I've struggled to get into driven shoots more than deer stalking and found the stalking community far more welcoming and far less pretentious.

I had no experience and no cash so tried relentlessly to get into any sort of shooting until I could eventually afford to pay to play.

For where I do shoot now though, I can sort of see why. The keeper basically breaks even from how much he charges me, and has a long drive and early start to meet me which would be a pain for a 'no show'. He has his permission through grit and determination, shooting day in day out as is professional doing a job he loves for a large landowner that appreciates his graft.

I complain when I get "given" a graduate in my office as they're usually very cocky, unappreciative and don't realise when they do something very very stupid. In shooting, that could be fatal.

I use the words "usually" fully knowing that my attitude is wrong and is not helpful. I'm not justifying it in shooting, I'm just sympathising with it.

That's just my patch and keeper, who I really appreciate even though I'm paying and have learnt SO much from that I cringe when I think back to my first few outings!!

 

[HDShark]

I’ve found the stalking community extremely welcoming over the last 10 years since I got into things. Never had an issue finding a syndicate place. Yes money is a factor, but when isn’t it these days. Concessions have to be made however, if you expect to find a few thousand acres 15 minutes from your front door for a few quid a year, then maybe time to be more realistic about it?

You’ll find that with time and the more people you meet, the opportunities will get better and less expensive!

 

[Morkai]

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[Bavarianbrit]

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?????

 

[Morkai]

?????

Sorry, I replied to a comment but didnt realise how old it was as the thread was resurrected.