Why the Uk is a better country to own a gun in than the United States

[Blaser Ash]

The purpose of this thread is to show why the UK is still a great country for shooters.

UK advantages

In the UK you get permission for a moderator/suppressor for pretty much any rifle without additional cost. In the US you have to pay a $200 tax stamp for every mod you own and - horror of horrors - you have to undergo background checks. This may seem like a minor advantage but I ruined my hearing in my left ear from shooting an unmoderated 17 Remington when I was in my twenties.

In the UK only serious people with a legitimate reason to own a gun have a gun. In the US, everyone has a gun.

In the UK firearms are locked up. In the US firearms are keep handy at all times for “home defence”.

In the UK people in gun shops know a lot about guns and shooting, whereas in the US working in a gun shop is just another job and I often find the person serving me knows very little about the products they sell.

In the UK there is no bag limit. If I want to shoot 1000 deer (in the appropriate season) I can. In the US, there will be a bag limit or tag limiting you often to only one animal.

I can go on, but it’s your turn. Also hopefully some of our friends across the pond can tell me why I’m wrong.

 

[VSS]

One noticeable difference between UK and US:

A recreational hunter in the US has 20 - 30 rifles and shoots 1 or 2 deer per year.
A recreational stalker in the UK has 1 or 2 rifles and shoots 20 - 30 deer per year.

Plus, here in the UK we can shoot deer every day of the year, as many as we like, and sell what we shoot. They can't.

Seems to me like we've got the better deal.

 

[webley701]

The purpose of this thread is to show why the UK is still a great country for shooters.

UK advantages

In the UK you get permission for a moderator/suppressor for pretty much any rifle without additional cost. In the US you have to pay a $200 tax stamp for every mod you own and - horror of horrors - you have to undergo background checks. This may seem like a minor advantage but I ruined my hearing in my left ear from shooting an unmoderated 17 Remington when I was in my twenties.

In the UK only serious people with a legitimate reason to own a gun have a gun. In the US, everyone has a gun.

In the UK firearms are locked up. In the US firearms are keep handy at all times for “home defence”.

In the UK people in gun shops know a lot about guns and shooting, whereas in the US working in a gun shop is just another job and I often find the person serving me knows very little about the products they sell.

In the UK there is no bag limit. If I want to shoot 1000 deer (in the appropriate season) I can. In the US, there will be a bag limit or tag limiting you often to only one animal.

I can go on, but it’s your turn. Also hopefully some of our friends across the pond can tell me why I’m wrong.

Whilst I won’t argue against the points you make I suspect former U.K. pistol shooters would suggest a slightly broader view of the relative pros & cons may be worthwhile.

 

[LeftHandGuy]

As someone who escaped the UK to the USA at least in part because of the culture around shooting I think there are some problems with your claims (although you do raise a couple of points).

Bag limits are in place because the quarry in question are public property - in the UK there is no entitlement to take game as a right, you must own land or the sporting rights that go with it. If you are poor or simply not well connected you have nothing, in the US, in most states, you can buy a modestly priced hunting license (~$27 in my home state) and have access to a share as a right. Not sure that the ability to shoot a 1000 deer a year is that great of an advantage.

You make a good point about sound suppressors/moderators - however the fact is that both the UK and US treat them as firearms, which is itself ludicrous.

Firearms storage varies by state and by household. I do have some for defense, I chose to store them in a way that only I can access them. One must find ones own balance. At least here I may make a choice for myself and law enables me to do so.

I've heard some pretty ignorant crap talked in gunshops on both sides of the pond. There are however many more gunshops here, so inevitably perhaps more ignorant posers....

By no means does "everyone have a gun" here, but it's my choice. It's not Switzerland where I might have had to have a gun, and it's not back in the UK where I have to beg permission and justify myself to some bureaucrat (however well intentioned or professionally courteous they may have been). I am not a criminal, drug addict, or victim of any medical condition that might make me disproportionately dangerous to my fellow humans. I'm a grownup, I enjoy owning and shooting firearms, and I do so in a way that does not impede anyone else from doing they might reasonably want to do.

I do spend a fair bit of time explaining ways in which the UK is far less restrictive of shooting and firearms ownership than many over here have been lead to believe, but to suggest anything other than that UK firearms legislation is excessively restrictive, burdensome and fundamentally illiberal is almost willfully myopic.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

As someone who escaped the UK to the USA at least in part because of the culture around shooting I think there are some problems with your claims (although you do raise a couple of points).

Bag limits are in place because the quarry in question are public property - in the UK there is no entitlement to take game as a right, you must own land or the sporting rights that go with it. If you are poor or simply not well connected you have nothing, in the US, in most states, you can buy a modestly priced hunting license (~$27 in my home state) and have access to a share as a right. Not sure that the ability to shoot a 1000 deer a year is that great of an advantage.

You make a good point about sound suppressors/moderators - however the fact is that both the UK and US treat them as firearms, which is itself ludicrous.

Firearms storage varies by state and by household. I do have some for defense, I chose to store them in a way that only I can access them. One must find ones own balance. At least here I may make a choice for myself and law enables me to do so.

I've heard some pretty ignorant crap talked in gunshops on both sides of the pond. There are however many more gunshops here, so inevitably perhaps more ignorant posers....

By no means does "everyone have a gun" here, but it's my choice. It's not Switzerland where I might have had to have a gun, and it's not back in the UK where I have to beg permission and justify myself to some bureaucrat (however well intentioned or professionally courteous they may have been). I am not a criminal, drug addict, or victim of any medical condition that might make me disproportionately dangerous to my fellow humans. I'm a grownup, I enjoy owning and shooting firearms, and I do so in a way that does not impede anyone else from doing they might reasonably want to do.

I do spend a fair bit of time explaining ways in which the UK is far less restrictive of shooting and firearms ownership than many over here have been lead to believe, but to suggest anything other than that UK firearms legislation is excessively restrictive, burdensome and fundamentally illiberal is almost willfully myopic.

I agree as I spent 8 years working over there, they are far more cool about owning a gun, generally. Here is an old American Rifleman content from August 1980 on the armed citizen page (published every month often with these type of stories on it).

 

[Blaser Ash]

Whilst I won’t argue against the points you make I suspect former U.K. pistol shooters would suggest a slightly broader view of the relative pros & cons may be worthwhile.

Yes that’s very true. I had a .22 rf semi auto and 9mm semi auto when the ban came in and I had to hand them in. I enjoyed shooting pistol, and when I’m in the states that’s usually what I shoot. The clubs usually have a decent quality rental .45 auto and they are very enjoyable to shoot. Rather than a ban, pistols should have been confined to ranges, but politics drives these decisions not common sense.

 

[kenbro]

The purpose of this thread is to show why the UK is still a great country for shooters.

UK advantages

In the UK you get permission for a moderator/suppressor for pretty much any rifle without additional cost. In the US you have to pay a $200 tax stamp for every mod you own and - horror of horrors - you have to undergo background checks. This may seem like a minor advantage but I ruined my hearing in my left ear from shooting an unmoderated 17 Remington when I was in my twenties.

In the UK only serious people with a legitimate reason to own a gun have a gun. In the US, everyone has a gun.

In the UK firearms are locked up. In the US firearms are keep handy at all times for “home defence”.

In the UK people in gun shops know a lot about guns and shooting, whereas in the US working in a gun shop is just another job and I often find the person serving me knows very little about the products they sell.

In the UK there is no bag limit. If I want to shoot 1000 deer (in the appropriate season) I can. In the US, there will be a bag limit or tag limiting you often to only one animal.

I can go on, but it’s your turn. Also hopefully some of our friends across the pond can tell me why I’m wrong.

Not quite true, that ‘only serious people with a legitimate reason own a gun and have a gun.’

You didn’t ruin your hearing because you didn’t have a moderator, you ruined it because you didn’t wear hearing protection that doesn’t need a permit.
Ken.

 

[Blaser Ash]

As someone who escaped the UK to the USA at least in part because of the culture around shooting I think there are some problems with your claims (although you do raise a couple of points).

Bag limits are in place because the quarry in question are public property - in the UK there is no entitlement to take game as a right, you must own land or the sporting rights that go with it. If you are poor or simply not well connected you have nothing, in the US, in most states, you can buy a modestly priced hunting license (~$27 in my home state) and have access to a share as a right. Not sure that the ability to shoot a 1000 deer a year is that great of an advantage.

You make a good point about sound suppressors/moderators - however the fact is that both the UK and US treat them as firearms, which is itself ludicrous.

Firearms storage varies by state and by household. I do have some for defense, I chose to store them in a way that only I can access them. One must find ones own balance. At least here I may make a choice for myself and law enables me to do so.

I've heard some pretty ignorant crap talked in gunshops on both sides of the pond. There are however many more gunshops here, so inevitably perhaps more ignorant posers....

By no means does "everyone have a gun" here, but it's my choice. It's not Switzerland where I might have had to have a gun, and it's not back in the UK where I have to beg permission and justify myself to some bureaucrat (however well intentioned or professionally courteous they may have been). I am not a criminal, drug addict, or victim of any medical condition that might make me disproportionately dangerous to my fellow humans. I'm a grownup, I enjoy owning and shooting firearms, and I do so in a way that does not impede anyone else from doing they might reasonably want to do.

I do spend a fair bit of time explaining ways in which the UK is far less restrictive of shooting and firearms ownership than many over here have been lead to believe, but to suggest anything other than that UK firearms legislation is excessively restrictive, burdensome and fundamentally illiberal is almost willfully myopic.

All fair points. And particularly your point about equal access to shooting rights in the US.

I agree that UK law is restrictive, and more importantly some police authorities are trying to interpret those laws ever more restrictively, but this is still a great country to shoot and hunt in and it distresses me how many people locally seem to be handing in their licences. The more of us with certificates out there actively shooting, the more chance there is of stemming this tide. It was was great to hear from a new guy starting out into rifle shooting on another thread. I have been encouraging some youngsters local to me to apply for their certificates.
For varmint shooters and deer stalkers there is some of the best shooting in the world here. There are also so many deer on our roads that they are likely to kill and injure far more people than legitimate UK gun owners will, so the UK public should actually be calling for more deer stalkers to be out there controlling the numbers. As ever, the politics gets in the way of the facts.

 

[Tim.243]

As someone who escaped the UK to the USA at least in part because of the culture around shooting I think there are some problems with your claims (although you do raise a couple of points).

Bag limits are in place because the quarry in question are public property - in the UK there is no entitlement to take game as a right, you must own land or the sporting rights that go with it. If you are poor or simply not well connected you have nothing, in the US, in most states, you can buy a modestly priced hunting license (~$27 in my home state) and have access to a share as a right. Not sure that the ability to shoot a 1000 deer a year is that great of an advantage.

You make a good point about sound suppressors/moderators - however the fact is that both the UK and US treat them as firearms, which is itself ludicrous.

Firearms storage varies by state and by household. I do have some for defense, I chose to store them in a way that only I can access them. One must find ones own balance. At least here I may make a choice for myself and law enables me to do so.

I've heard some pretty ignorant crap talked in gunshops on both sides of the pond. There are however many more gunshops here, so inevitably perhaps more ignorant posers....

By no means does "everyone have a gun" here, but it's my choice. It's not Switzerland where I might have had to have a gun, and it's not back in the UK where I have to beg permission and justify myself to some bureaucrat (however well intentioned or professionally courteous they may have been). I am not a criminal, drug addict, or victim of any medical condition that might make me disproportionately dangerous to my fellow humans. I'm a grownup, I enjoy owning and shooting firearms, and I do so in a way that does not impede anyone else from doing they might reasonably want to do.

I do spend a fair bit of time explaining ways in which the UK is far less restrictive of shooting and firearms ownership than many over here have been lead to believe, but to suggest anything other than that UK firearms legislation is excessively restrictive, burdensome and fundamentally illiberal is almost willfully myopic.

On the flip side from watching (from youtube) US hunters in full stride
Personally I am quite happy with a couple of rifles/shotguns as they deal with any thing in the UK also no tag system or game warden checks
And the real bonus of not having to wear a Daffy Duck Hat in Orange

keep an eye on that bird "I will get down "

 

[Jagare]

On the flip side from watching (from youtube) US hunters in full stride
Personally I am quite happy with a couple of rifles/shotguns as they deal with any thing in the UK also no tag system or game warden checks
And the real bonus of not having to wear a Daffy Duck Hat in Orange

keep an eye on that bird "I will get down "

That pheasant shooting looks like the finals of the Darwin awards. WTF

 

[Blaser Ash]

At least in the video of shooting a deer with a 50bmg he’s not trying to shoot it from a mile away. If you can miss a deer completely, you can also shoot it in the jaw or the leg. The long range large animal hunting craze in the US sells a lot of heavy barrel rifles, but I’m very glad it’s not happening here.

The furthest I have ever shot a deer is less than 200 yards and most were shot much closer. None of them got away and I’m very proud of that fact.

I know some of you guys can reliably harvest deer out further than that. I’m just saying you owe it to the animal to shoot within your own limitations and that seems to be lost on the very long range hunting community in the US. It’s just a straightforward fact that best shot in the world is not going to get the wind right every single time and at over 500 yards, that’s the difference between a clean kill and a nasty wound.

 

[HonestJohn]

The OP sounds like a sales manager trying to convince their sales team their products are the best for motivation, when clearly inferior.

 

[Tim.243]

At least in the video of shooting a deer with a 50bmg he’s not trying to shoot it from a mile away. If you can miss a deer completely, you can also shoot it in the jaw or the leg. The long range large animal hunting craze in the US sells a lot of heavy barrel rifles, but I’m very glad it’s not happening here.

The furthest I have ever shot a deer is less than 200 yards and most were shot much closer. None of them got away and I’m very proud of that fact.

I know some of you guys can reliably harvest deer out further than that. I’m just saying you owe it to the animal to shoot within your own limitations and that seems to be lost on the very long range hunting community in the US. It’s just a straightforward fact that best shot in the world is not going to get the wind right every single time and at over 500 yards, that’s the difference between a clean kill and a nasty wound.

The very fact it was feeding on a heap of corn which has been tipped in front of the cabin is a laugh for starters.
You never mentioned about the pheasant "hunt" with the step on it then duck method lol

As it is Friday

 

[kenbro]

On the flip side from watching (from youtube) US hunters in full stride
Personally I am quite happy with a couple of rifles/shotguns as they deal with any thing in the UK also no tag system or game warden checks
And the real bonus of not having to wear a Daffy Duck Hat in Orange

keep an eye on that bird "I will get down "

Tim,
I think there’s probably a lot of stalkers over here that would stand in line for a tag and wear a silly hat if the could then go hunting for food or trophy animals without having to pay the sometimes exorbitant fees here.
Ken.

 

[Tim.243]

Tim,
I think there’s probably a lot of stalkers over here that would stand in line for a tag and wear a silly hat if the could then go hunting for food or trophy animals without having to pay the sometimes exorbitant fees here.
Ken.

They pay the fees as they don't want to wait or put in years of pest control then work into stalking, those years makes you sharp. But it is getting off the Daffy Duck Hat thread..

 

[John Gryphon]

In the UK only serious people with a legitimate reason to own a gun have a gun.

There are plenty of serious people in the UK that have guns...gangsters! They see the need as legitimate too.

could then go hunting for food or trophy animals without having to pay the sometimes exorbitant fees here.

Yes that is something that I cant get over and is an indictment on the 'modern hunting man' here in Australia also. Whereas here in Victoria we have unlimited...yes unlimited tallies of sambar deer and 18 million acres of public land to hunt on yet so many take the short cut and buy their way to heads on the wall generally behind wire.

I videoed a stag yesterday during a lengthy follow up, took portraits of him with company. There are many here that would pay me five grand to knock him over....not interested from my side but many would jump with the Arthur Ashe in claw.

 

[Rake Aboot]

You must be mad to think shooters here have it better than in the states.

A country with a protected right to own firearms compared to one of the heaviest legislated countries in the world?


Eh,,,,,naw.

 

[Blaser Ash]

The OP sounds like a sales manager trying to convince their sales team their products are the best for motivation, when clearly inferior.

Sorry if I’m driving this too hard. I’ve been to the states a lot and pretty much every American I have met in business I have liked, so I have no particular axe to grind. Also the idea of having unlimited guns appeals, though that also relies on having unlimited funds, but I always come away from the US glad I live and hunt here. I’ve had a few long plane rides to think about why that is.

 

[Cootmeurer]

Simply put, our right to own firearms is not predicated on a bureaucratic process to determine if we have a need. I may choose to own a firearm, or not, regardless if I have permission for a particular species on a particular bit of ground.

Should I move from a firearm friendly jurisdiction to one less friendly, I don’t need to report in and ensure the new boss is okay with what I possess. As a matter of fact, except for Class III items (full auto, short barreled shotguns, suppressors) the jurisdiction has no reason to know what I do or don’t possess.

I have enjoyed my time afield in the UK, but wouldn’t trade what I have here for deer in Scotland

 

[kenbro]

Sorry if I’m driving this too hard. I’ve been to the states a lot and pretty much every American I have met in business I have liked, so I have no particular axe to grind. Also the idea of having unlimited guns appeals, though that also relies on having unlimited funds, but I always come away from the US glad I live and hunt here. I’ve had a few long plane rides to think about why that is.

No, you said the purpose of the thread was to show why the UK is still a great country for shooters.
Considering many shooters had their preferred guns banned and consequently could no longer shoot ….,
do you really believe it is?
Cheers, Ken.