Wonderhart Driven Boar

[starr shot]

I was talking with a Bulgar in spring and he was explaining to me how to make money from hunting and I found it very entertaining.
First he said you post adverts for driven boar or other large game, at reasonable prices , showing animals hunted previously.
Once you get a group together you take them somewhere good so they get plenty of sport and you treat them like royalty.
They go home happy and tell the world about their marvelous trip, resulting in you getting more clients.
Meanwhile you get the animals shot processed, salami and sell it to the locals, skins tanned to sell on the net, same with trophys.
When repeat customers are sourced they are charged a hefty deposit that they don't see again! and if your lucky the full price is paid upfront!
They the hunters don't get to you because they don't know where you live etc etc.

I asked, " what about the Police, the law etc?" his answer was " Oh they like Salami and hunting themselves".
Oh if your interested His name was R

pretty much what happen on our last trip with Tamas of wonderhart.

 

[EMcC]

There are also some agents that take a deposit and the balance at the end of the hunt based on the number of pigs shot.
There is a snag with that, as some agents count the shots and have a sum of shots in their head that equates to the number of pigs that should be on the ground at the end of the day !
but there are also some that don't
I went to Croatia with one agent the year before last that quoted a price for thirty pigs a day at a certain price, we over reached it the first day, not quite the second and third day but thank goodness he didn't count the shots.
There was no shortage of pigs just over excited hunters and fast fleeing pigs, it was a fantastic trip, great food, organisation, company and accommodation all for 2k.
The same group, minus me due to a heart attack, went last year but it wasn't quite the same, just as well organised and enjoyable, just a lack of pigs and the price was duly reduced.
I am quite happy paying 'peanuts' and taking my chance in open forest where sometimes it pays off and other times it isn't quite so productive but as long as the company, accommodation and organisation is good, then I enjoy it.
Last year I went on a 300 euro a day hunt and all that was shot was 7 pigs on the first day but that was for a shot count of 55 from us hunters !!!
The second day we accounted for 29 pigs but I stopped counting the shots after fifty.
Three 'Newbies' shot pigs for the first time, one of them shot three after having been on four previous trips with other agents without luck, another shot two and another shot one.
One of the other 'newbies' didn't have a rifle so used a shotgun, he hit one and bowled it over but after a while it got up and ran away, more than likely to be found later but wasn't reported as found while we were there, unfortunately.
So there you have it, no trip is the same, no agent is the same and no 'Paying system' is the same.
It is a law of averages, do enough trips and it will pan out eventually.

 

[CarlW]

all that was shot was 7 pigs on the first day but that was for a shot count of 55 from us hunters !!!

I have never done driven boar and have no plans to. Nontheless, I have no objection to it as an exciting-looking and probably pretty effective method of boar control. However, statistics like this make me feel slightly uncomfortable. Were all 48 shots that did not result in a kill accounted for? i.e. either verified as multiple shots in the same beast, or verified as clean misses by examining the shot site and/or following up with a trained dog? 48 times?

This is not a criticism of you, of your hunting party, or of driven-boar-shooting in general. I would genuinely like to be able to defend this aspect of our sport if required, and reading those raw numbers makes me feel ill-equipped to do so.

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[finnbear270]

Carl, How do feel about the lost pricked goose or duck that has been whisked away from a good dog on the marsh breeze?, Or that pigeon downed in the corn on the wrong side of your hide? .... we all lose game somewhere or other, German forestry drives are run with a pretty good follow up system, so any hunter who declares a hit but the Boar cannot be found within yards results in a team similar to that run here,https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj2-oqJ6I3gAhUkTBUIHerXBJsQFjAAegQICxAB&url=http://www.ukdeertrackandrecovery.co.uk/tracking.html&usg=AOvVaw29cNI2I1iK3X3azAkipx5j the only difference being, they are part of the drives & on site.

 

[CarlW]

Carl, How do feel about the lost pricked goose or duck that has been whisked away from a good dog on the marsh breeze?, Or that pigeon downed in the corn on the wrong side of your hide? .... we all lose game somewhere or other, German forestry drives are run with a pretty good follow up system, so any hunter who declares a hit but the Boar cannot be found within yards results in a team similar to that run here,https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj2-oqJ6I3gAhUkTBUIHerXBJsQFjAAegQICxAB&url=http://www.ukdeertrackandrecovery.co.uk/tracking.html&usg=AOvVaw29cNI2I1iK3X3azAkipx5j the only difference being, they are part of the drives & on site.

Hi @finnbear270,

I feel sad about the goose, the duck and the pigeon too. Any wounded animal is heartbreaking to a hunter, which is why I ask the question.

If 55 shots of the rifle for 7 dead animals is 'the norm' on driven hunts then that is an eye-opener for me. I truly did not know that. I also struggle to see how 48 of those would have been clean misses.

However, I have never done driven boar (Africa and Scotland are jealous lovers) so I feel unable to turn the numbers into a picture (if that makes sense).

Your dog link is helpful (I have always used my dog when night-shooting deer (cue abuse); however, it doesn't explain to me how/whether the 48 misses/repeat hits were verified.

I guess, whether it can be explained to me or not, I feel wiser after reading these numbers than I did before.

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[finnbear270]

We have a usual comment amongst our selves about the number of shots heard on drives, to ratio of game on display at the ceremonies, nearest I can describe is those people who insist on shooting at out of range pheasants / pigeons, I mean REALLY out of range stuff,or well behind on ground game, no actual harm done & a lot of the hunters would not admit to letting off a round if they have nothing down.

 

[EMcC]

Mostly the shots are misses because most UK hunters are not used to shooting fleeing game so the shots go behind, however if an animal is hit it will show some sign to the hunter that it has been hit and when the drive is finished trained dog men will check for blood to confirm a hit and follow up until the animal is found.
Most of the driven hunts are carried out when the snow or at least frost is on the ground so blood trails are easily spotted by hunters, but even so, the trained dog men will follow a wounded animal for miles as the dog does not necessarily need to see blood.
Sometimes adrenalin takes over and the shots are miles off and all that does is make the animal run faster
Oh I forgot to mention, quite a few trees get shot too in the excitement unfortunately they do not end up on parade at the end of the day

 

[CarlW]

Mostly the shots are misses because most UK hunters are not used to shooting fleeing game so the shots go behind, however if an animal is hit it will show some sign to the hunter that it has been hit and when the drive is finished trained dog men will check for blood to confirm a hit and follow up until the animal is found.
Most of the driven hunts are carried out when the snow or at least frost is on the ground so blood trails are easily spotted by hunters, but even so, the trained dog men will follow a wounded animal for miles as the dog does not necessarily need to see blood.
Sometimes adrenalin takes over and the shots are miles off and all that does is make the animal run faster
Oh I forgot to mention, quite a few trees get shot too in the excitement unfortunately they do not end up on parade at the end of the day

I can picture it now. Thank you.

So, essentially, the dogs are called to follow up if the shooter sees a flinch, or a check, or a ripple or an impact or some other sign that he has made contact with the boar? Otherwise, the shooter sheepishly pretends that the hole in the tree was there all along?

The numbers no longer scare me...

Kind regards,

Carl

 

[EMcC]

The number of shots also indicate whether the beaters/dogs or hunt master has done his job.
For instance, the time only 7 pigs were on the ground at the end of the first day was not an indication of lack of pigs, the number of shots indicated the true number seen and available to be shot.
That is why some Agents count the shots and equate a certain number of shots to a pig.
If an agent charges for 30 pigs a day and is using the shot count system and only 20 pigs are on the parade at the end of the day and the shot count is high, then he knows the pigs were put in front of the guns and the opportunity was there for them to be shot so he has fulfilled his obligation and the full charge is justified.
I have not heard of the shot count system being used recently so maybe the high prices charged these days cover such eventualities.

 

[finnbear270]

As to "UK" hunters, we (our particular party of friends), have an uncanny knack to outshoot more often than equal our German friends on the drives, I overheard a comment that I cannot repeat under any circumstances in full, "AH, I see so & so's (referring to a persons guests ), (us), ..............'s are here again!" .. referring to the kill rate to shots fired against the other participents on the drives.

 

[Jagare]

Two weeks ago i was on a 2 day driven hunt in Hungary. There is a rising price list for how many animals are in the game parade. The 61 head shot on the 2 days cost 1300 Euro's. 10 head would be 500 euro's and 91 head would have cost 1600Euro's . You sort your own transport and hotel but the agent will book the hotel for you. Plus the agent is there but do's not shoot.
The agent showed me the shot counter and 134 shots had been fired on the Sunday. I saw a lot of game and the gun on the stand down from me shot 8 shots for 1 boar.
Second time I've been with this agent and hope to go again next season. You get a proper contract so everything is transparent. Jackals and foxes are not counted in the bag. 3 jackals and a fox were in the game parade. There are honest agents out there.

 

[243varmint]

As to "UK" hunters, we (our particular party of friends), have an uncanny knack to outshoot more often than equal our German friends on the drives, I overheard a comment that I cannot repeat under any circumstances in full, "AH, I see so & so's (referring to a persons guests ), (us), ..............'s are here again!" .. referring to the kill rate to shots fired against the other participents on the drives.

I’ve been twice to a friend in Germany boar hunting.
Shooting cinema first. Great fun.
Both times comments were made that British hunters do well in the cinema because they are used to shooting moving targets. i.e clays, bolting rabbits and winged game.
So I can see how you would get comments like you did.
My friend runs the dog tracking team for his home area. When hunting on driven shoots he is there also to track wounded game. After he has come off his stand, he gets back to the meeting point. Gets told by the head forester what is needed to be followed up and where. If the hunter is available he takes him with him and gets all the info to help him follow up the beast.
Like pheasant shooting over here you have beaters and ‘pickers up’/ trackers.
It’s all ran like military precision as you would expect.

All I can equate it to, it’s like a driven pheasant shoot over here.
You have small shoots and big shoots. Farmers shoots and ‘commercial shoots’.

 

[gelert]

Lots on Facebook who have been stung thousands from Tamas Tacaks of Wonderhart Hunting.
One poor bugger down £14k.
Stay well clear is the general consensus.

 

[kamyonsofor]

Rubin Frydd more like Robbin Frukker, but it is like everything in Eastern Europe they look at us as a easy way to make money from heads of Governments down corruption is rife, my terminology is they are "Parasites" preying on anyone on or anything.At least here you can always rock up on their door and have a heart to heart kinda thing.

 

[Robek1980]

I have not but i have been with ANPI in Aggtelek up near the boarders and it was fantastic. It is actually run by the national park by themselves and not some random locals. Same with big stags they are friendly and their guesthouse is great and the area has lots to see too. Hope this helps

 

[JTO]

In any sector, where people have large amounts of disposable income, there will be people willing to take it off them in any way possible. Shooting seems to have an inexhaustible supply of such people. Match fishing is the same, it's called 'mugging'.

 

[starr shot]

In any sector, where people have large amounts of disposable income, there will be people willing to take it off them in any way possible. Shooting seems to have an inexhaustible supply of such people. Match fishing is the same, it's called 'mugging'.

On our trip I can’t think of anybody who had a disposable income infact some of them had saved and forsaken holidays to go on their yearly boar hunt only to be stitched up by Tamas.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Seems like a classic "find some large chaps" and pay for them to have a short holiday in that country.
This would never happen in USA as breathing would soon stop.

 

[sikamalc]

Whether its disposable income or someone saving for a one off trip of their life, shouldn't make any difference, its still theft.
Its not uncommon for some of these unscrupulous people to carry on as if nothing has happened, plenty of them out there, including those that dump their clients 24 hours before they fly out and tell them the whole trip is off. Then promise to pay back their air tickets, no chance, not even a partial payment, and this was about 3 years ago.

I had one of these guys friends call me to see if I could fit him in that weekend as he had travelled down overnight to stay near the airport, only to be told by the so called agent that the whole trip was cancelled. They are out there, check first, and then check again, its free to ask on here and you can use the PM service to ask.

 

[JTO]

This happens on a smaller scale in this country. I heard of someone who shot a roe doe, that the guide had selected, being charged £150 'because it was a big one'.