What are the benefits of having DSC 2 ?

[sauer]

Hi tikka
As said you have a few options in how to obtain your DSC 2 .... If you want it .
Cheaper option & more expensive but more convienent option

1. Cheaper option
= your own ground , register for dsc2 portfolio , with portfolio comes list of all dsc2 accredited witnesses .... Contact local ones haggle your deal with who floats your boat , hopefully 3 witness stalks later & few questions & irs done .

2. More expensive option
= professional outfit , on their ground over very short timescale ( say a weekend)
& again hopefully same 3 stalks later & questions and your there.
But you may have the travel & accomodation etc
Mind as said it would be same as going paid stalking So not much more ?

Now ..... Why should you do it ?
Only you can answer that , what does it gain ?
For different people different things .

For me was the personal knowledge I'd progressed to a set standard ,
2nd reason was well it's the way most things in life are going , you need a piece o paper , I do think it gives you more scope to gain ground .


Why not ask for AW contacts in your area and speak to them over a coffee. Or beer & see how you feel before you decide


Paul

 

[TikkaFan]

I think it is fair to say that a roe eating as much as a sheep is a very poor comparison?
Firstly, a Roe is much smaller than a sheep and has a much different diet and stomach size. Sheep are grazers and bulk feed. Roe are 'browsers' and feed on more nutritious sources which they can freely access as they are not stuck in fields! It's a bit like the old wives tale that 2 hares can eat as much as a sheep. Really!!!???
MS

You should go out at night with Ti , Ive watched them grazing for hours grazing on grass and winter/spring wheat , hares Im not sure about but its a fact that 10 rabbits will eat as much as a sheep ,Rabbit

"The roe deer is primarily crepuscular, very quick and graceful, and lives in woods, although it may venture into grasslands and sparse forests. They feed mainly on grass, leaves, berries, and young shoots. They particularly like very young, tender grass with a high moisture content, i.e., grass that has received rain the day before. Roe deer will not generally venture into a field that has had or has livestock (sheep, cattle) in it because the livestock make the grass unclean. A pioneer species commonly associated with biotic communities at an early stage of succession, during the Neolithic period in Europe, the roe deer was abundant, taking advantage of areas of forest or woodland cleared by Neolithic farmers"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_deer

Whilst Roe do not generally graze pasture land that farm livestock live on out of choice they do if they don't have a choice.

 

[FGYT]

I got my £1k figure from here http://jelendeer.com/pre-dsc2.php and here http://www.jelendeer.com/dsc2.php

Registration £160
Pre DSC 2 £250
DSC 2 £599
Travel & Accommodation ??

Dont forget you have to do DSC1 before DSC2 thats £300 (you would hope thats a pre DCS2 course)


Dorset are now pushing DSC2 as the only option to open a ticket before the 5yr renewal point (while not recognising DSC1 as any use for application exp etc)

 

[Erik Hamburger]

It is not just the FC that requires the DSC2: You'll need the DSC2 to become a Licensed Stalker on National Trust land, most of the Wildlife Trusts, Woodland Trust land, and also have a look at a recent advert by the DI looking for volunteers for the Wye Valley project: DSC2 required.
In addition to that there is a degree of personal achievement and it really, really helps when talking to private landowners/farmers about taking on deer management on their land.

 

[Taff]

Dont forget you have to do DSC1 before DSC2 thats £300 (you would hope thats a pre DCS2 course)


Dorset are now pushing DSC2 as the only option to open a ticket before the 5yr renewal point (while not recognising DSC1 as any use for application exp etc)

And up until a few years ago, no police force was offering open tickets before first renewal, regardless of experience. as long as the land is passed, which most is, the holy grail of a open ticket is irrelevant.

 

[Pine Marten]

And up until a few years ago, no police force was offering open tickets before first renewal, regardless of experience. as long as the land is passed, which most is, the holy grail of a open ticket is irrelevant.

My FEO at the Met told me that they almost never gave first time FAC holders an open condition, but the flipside is that their default position is to grant it for first renewal. Given that it makes precious little practical difference, I'm OK with that. Just a year and a bit to go...

 

[TikkaFan]

My FEO at the Met told me that they almost never gave first time FAC holders an open condition, but the flipside is that their default position is to grant it for first renewal. Given that it makes precious little practical difference, I'm OK with that. Just a year and a bit to go...

Had a fully open ticket for many years , well before I did my DSC 1 , my first open ticket was in Staffordshire but I have a lot of Agricultural work connections so I guess that may have helped , even today no land is specified on my open FAC.

 

[2130martin]

BASC told me that there has never been a prosecution for breach of the "open/closed" condition........

 

[FGYT]

And up until a few years ago, no police force was offering open tickets before first renewal, regardless of experience. as long as the land is passed, which most is, the holy grail of a open ticket is irrelevant.

No most land isnt passed everyone of my permissions had to be cleared and one I can't shoot deer as I asked for cleared to 6.5mm/.260" and they would only clear it up to .243"

First Renewal was only 3 yrs now its 5yrs what happens when its 10yrs . Open condition is supposed to be a case by case basis not blanket policy as per HO guidance no Problem if DSC2 is one way of getting it But not right as the only way especially as its expensive to go from DSC1 and 2 and IMO as it was not written to assess clearance for an open cert it shouldn't be used as such

I have to get the Land ifno of any PRo stalker I pay to stalk so I can Check its cleared (my Ticket My responsibility ) Most understandably don't want to give the name and address of their Permissions

 

[Erik Hamburger]

My FEO at the Met told me that they almost never gave first time FAC holders an open condition, but the flipside is that their default position is to grant it for first renewal. Given that it makes precious little practical difference, I'm OK with that. Just a year and a bit to go...

There is no logic in that automatic grant after 5 years. So a stalker who goes on one guided stalk each year gets an 'open' FAC after 5 years, as does the stalker who goes on 4-5 stalks each week. In the first case there may not be sufficient experience to justify an 'open' FAC; in the second case sufficient experience will have been gained to justify an 'open' FAC much, much sooner. In fact, using that 'logic', after one week.

 

[FGYT]

There is no logic in that automatic grant after 5 years. So a stalker who goes on one guided stalk each year gets an 'open' FAC after 5 years, as does the stalker who goes on 4-5 stalks each week. In the first case there may not be sufficient experience to justify an 'open' FAC; in the second case sufficient experience will have been gained to justify an 'open' FAC much, much sooner. In fact, using that 'logic', after one week.

or Shoot your DSC1 test 3 deer for DSC2 Bish BAsh Bosh Open ticket if you did it before application they would under their own Rule have to issue an open ticket on First grant

Obviously rimfire and varmint shooters can just wait the 5 yrs

 

[willie_gunn]

You should go out at night with Ti , Ive watched them grazing for hours grazing on grass and winter/spring wheat , hares Im not sure about but its a fact that 10 rabbits will eat as much as a sheep ,Rabbit

Not according to your link, which claims that "10 to 15 rabbits eat as much grass as a sheep".

Mind you, according to Countryfile only six rabbits are needed to eat as much as a sheep: The truth about rabbit | Countryfile.com

Whereas this pest controller says it's seven: Damage caused by rabbits and the reasons for effective rabbit control

Here it's seven to ten: http://www.animalcontrol.com.au/rabbit.htm

But here it's ten: http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/rabbits/page-2

and here it's ten: http://www.cornishhedges.co.uk/PDF/rabbits.pdf

But then here it was "nine rabbits eating as much as two sheep": http://www.livingarchive.org.uk/includes/external/nvq/tracey/animals_rabbit.html

This "guide to game" reckons one rabbit eats as much as a sheep, and a hare can eat three times as much: http://www.lovefood.com/journal/features/13373/guide-to-game-rabbit-and-hare

So, is it one, six, seven, ten, or fifteen? The truth is that I doubt anyone really knows, so it's not actually a fact at all

 

[2130martin]

Technically,anyone with an English issued "Closed" FAC can't shoot in Scotland as they don't "clear" any land North of the border......When I mentioned this to my Firearms Dept they said it doesn't apply to Scotland,doesn't that make the whole thing a nonsense?.........Probably why no one has ever been charged with breaching the "closed" condition according to BASC.....

 

[Pine Marten]

So, is it one, six, seven, ten, or fifteen? The truth is that I doubt anyone really knows, so it's not actually a fact at all

Well we need to frame the problem better, we need boundary conditions. What are the current accepted international standards for idealised standard sheep, rabbits, hares, and normalised grass?

 

[willie_gunn]

Well we need to frame the problem better, we need boundary conditions. What are the current accepted international standards for idealised standard sheep, rabbits, hares, and normalised grass?

You'll be wanting this organisation then: Standards Development - ISO

There must surely be some EU funds in this type of research......

 

[Pine Marten]

You'll be wanting this organisation then: Standards Development - ISO

There must surely be some EU funds in this type of research......

First of all, let us assume that the sheep is a homogeneous and isotropic sphere...

 

[Heym SR20]

I completed my DSC 2 about three years ago. Personal satisfaction was one driver, but mainly so that I am well ahead of the game when it comes to needing qualifications to even thinking about shooting a deer. tick box mentality is increasingly becoming a fact of life, especially with current bunch in Holyrood. I am also a qualified paragliding coach, I have a PADI ticket and one day I may do my yachtmaster ticket but I don't "yet" need the latter to go sailing.

DSC 2 is somewhat self serving in that it now seems to be base requirement for holding a stalking lease, and I suspect before long you will need DSC 2 to be allowed to stalk unaccompanied - but that will be a pity. I don't have an issue per se with DSC2 and I was fortunate to have some good people help me through it and as AW. Overall it was an enjoyable experience. I have heard The PADI qualification being known to instructors as PUt Another Dollar In, ie pretty much the sole of each course is to sell the next one. I fear some may see DSC1 and DSC2 ( and 3, 4 ,5) in the same light.

 

[FGYT]

. I have heard The PADI qualification being known to instructors as PUt Another Dollar In, ie pretty much the sole of each course is to sell the next one.

Not quite right we also have to sell some piece of Equipment that may be of benefit to the course and sell the next course up

even us instructors are sold to as the ladder of instructor level goes up as well then (some require no course just meet a given criteria ie Certifications you have issued and add on courses you can teach and sent £60 to PADI for your Shiney New Master SCUBA Diver Trainer....)

as a Course Director you also still get sold the next level of Instructor Trainer bits

 

[sauer]

BASC then TDI & PSA
But never bothered with PADI ... The hard sell was way other the top ...

Paul

 

[Heym SR20]

Not quite right we also have to sell some piece of Equipment that may be of benefit to the course and sell the next course up

even us instructors are sold to as the ladder of instructor level goes up as well then (some require no course just meet a given criteria ie Certifications you have issued and add on courses you can teach and sent £60 to PADI for your Shiney New Master SCUBA Diver Trainer....)

as a Course Director you also still get sold the next level of Instructor Trainer bits

thank you, I am humbly corrected, and of course for DSC2 you do need the range finder - Leica of course, and a mahoosive scope with twiddly things, not forgetting your stainless spirally fluted barrel and moderator and of course the Argo cat to carry all of this, and your sterile portable operating theatre to do the gralloch with jcb digger to dispose of the gralloch - but then I could be accused of being silly!!!

and I did forget the Harkila thong