Deer and shotguns!

[bryn]

Shot a roe last week, skinned it and found a 22 air rifle pellet embedded in the rib cage.
Bryn

 

[kimh]

I don't agree and won't agree, if you decide and have to take any life it should be with respect, swift, in the most civil and human form.

 

[kes]

I don't agree and won't agree, if you decide and have to take any life it should be with respect, swift, in the most civil and human form.

Sadly not everyone who has a gun knows the meaning of the word 'humane'. There will always be a temptation to shoot a deer for the unwise and ill-informed.
I am thankful that those who use the proper calibre of firearm and call themselves deerstalkers, are almost universally aware of the meaning of the word 'humane'.
Sadly most people have no idea what a 'clear conscience' means, in terms of all our dealings with animals, we all should have one.

 

[Monkey Spanker]

Shot a roe last week, skinned it and found a 22 air rifle pellet embedded in the rib cage.
Bryn

That's just ridiculous! Whatever do these people think they can achieve by doing such a thing?
MS

 

[Bandit Country]

That's just ridiculous! Whatever do these people think they can achieve by doing such a thing?
MS

15 minutes of fame? A number of years ago there was a front page article in the local rag reporting a sighting of a 'big cat' by some bloke out walking his terrier and carrying a .22 air rifle. He stated that he'd taken a shot at the 'big cat' but that it had run off. He was quite happy to have his mugshot plastered on the front page, so presumably he felt he'd done something admirable?

 

[scrumbag]

Well, like any firearm, used correctly, with the right ammunition on the intended target species and shotguns can be effective. It is called buck shot afterall. I suspect the issue is people judging range poorly on such a large target as a deer and using the wrong ammunition....

 

[Fursty Ferret]

I would think that as we draw closer to spring and the shrubs and plants and veg in small holdings ,allotments start pushing up muntjac and other deer will be draw in closer to human contact I hear quite regularly at markets how someone took a shot at a muntjac in the garden eating the roses or in the veg patch .infact I recollect have quite a conversation with one chap who told me that he often kill mutjac in the apple orchard he went on to say that didn't always get them what he should have said was he didn't always kill them .i doubt this will ever change

It should change though!.....it is down to us to help drive that change. No one likes a snitch but i wouldnt hesitate in reporting (and have done so before) such induviduals.

 

[Heym SR20]

A shotgun loaded with buckshot is highly effective on deer provided the range is kept short. We we talking nine or ten pellets in the load with each pellet have the energy of a 9mm pistol bullet. Such buckshot from a tight delivers tremendous out to 30 odd yards. But such buckshot requires a FAC, so those who are using the farmers defence use whatever they can get hold of or what they have in their pocket. No 1s, BBs or even SsG don't have the penetration to kill reliably. Thousands of deer are humanely harvested every year in the US using appropriate buckshot or slugs, so nothing wrong with a shotgun, but everything wrong with usage.

 

[Monkey Spanker]

A shotgun loaded with buckshot is highly effective on deer provided the range is kept short. We we talking nine or ten pellets in the load with each pellet have the energy of a 9mm pistol bullet. Such buckshot from a tight delivers tremendous out to 30 odd yards. But such buckshot requires a FAC, so those who are using the farmers defence use whatever they can get hold of or what they have in their pocket. No 1s, BBs or even SsG don't have the penetration to kill reliably. Thousands of deer are humanely harvested every year in the US using appropriate buckshot or slugs, so nothing wrong with a shotgun, but everything wrong with usage.

'Buckshot' is a bit of a loose term really and the type of cartridge you refer to with a bout 9 x 9mm pellets are a SG or LG load.
The legal shot load for deer is AAA shot which has about 35 pellets per ounce of load and must be delivered with a 12 Bore.
MS

 

[reiver]

I have being known to shoot deer with a shotgun once in a while
used 1oz slug or sg or AAAshot size all deader than a dead thing

 

[enfieldspares]

But such buckshot requires a FAC, so those who are using the farmers defence use whatever they can get hold of or what they have in their pocket.

No that's incorrect. Any shot gun cartridge that contains three or mor pellets none of which exceed .36" diameter is legal in the UK to possess on a Shot Gun Certificate. The diameter of .36" being called "LG" or in the USA "OOO" buckshot. Below that are the lesser sizes, SG, Special SG, SSG and AAA. There used also to even be an MG but that size is now no longer ever seen except in old time tables of shot sizes....but is pretty much the size of USA "OO" buckshot.

In terms of lethal effect pattern will always fail before penetration and from actual results (on humans)....I have this from someone who worked in that field...it is distance that is the only critical factor.

That is to say that at a distance that SSG shot is assured of inflicting a mortal or lethal wound #6 shot would also be as assured of inflicting a mortal or lethal wound. I was quite surprised at that but apparently that is what the results proved.

As correctly MS infers any person may purchase deer legal, England AAA, Scotland SSG (AAA for roe) buckshot type shot gun cartridges on a standard Shot Gun Certificate and does not require an FAC unless he wishes to have "solid slug" ammunition.

The legislation is however framed in "old practices" and does not mention the shot charge weight (although it does for the "solid slug" exception) of the AAA charge and so takes no account of modern 20 bore 3" Magnum cartridges.

Also, quite perversely, it would be an offence to take a deer in the circumstances that allow a shot gun with a 10 bore firing AAA shot even though such a shot load, around two ounces, would exceed that in any 12 bore of equivalent cartridge length. Why is this so?

 

[Taff]

I don't agree and won't agree, if you decide and have to take any life it should be with respect, swift, in the most civil and human form.

so what was actually wrong with the video , he followed up and found a dead deer, just like most people do with a rifle, I have seen many deer killed with a shotgun using spsg and sabot slug,most fell on the spot some ran as far as rifle shot deer.
with your statement it sounds as if you have little experience of game hunting, as to shooting with small shot, that's just a waste of a cartridge, although I was once told number8 in a 3inch cartridge was good for follow up on wounded tiger, "makes a bloody big hole at close range monty what o"

 

[enfieldspares]

I was once told number8 in a 3inch cartridge was good for follow up on wounded tiger, "makes a bloody big hole at close range monty what o"

True. I knew a man that did it. #6 shot in a standard side by side 12 bore. A friend of my father's. He did it in India and ever after...four decades after...was known as "Tiger". He said the same thing that a close range "it held together remarkably well".

I am guessing that the things old guys knew about these things is knowledge that is now lost.

 

[Taff]

It was explained to me that a fine shoot fired at the same speed as large shot would penetrate further.

 

[redlab]

A shotgun loaded with buckshot is highly effective on deer provided the range is kept short. We we talking nine or ten pellets in the load with each pellet have the energy of a 9mm pistol bullet. Such buckshot from a tight delivers tremendous out to 30 odd yards. But such buckshot requires a FAC, so those who are using the farmers defence use whatever they can get hold of or what they have in their pocket. No 1s, BBs or even SsG don't have the penetration to kill reliably. Thousands of deer are humanely harvested every year in the US using appropriate buckshot or slugs, so nothing wrong with a shotgun, but everything wrong with usage.

Not that I'm doubting you as you know your stuff, I thought it was only slugs that required a fac authorization to hold or use??

 

[Moray Outfitting]

As far as the video goes, many states in america ONLY allow deer shooting with the shotgun and the specific cartridge. That is their Laws. The shot looked good. Possibly slightly further back than I would have liked. What I didn't understand was the wait till it was so dark to go and get it ??...J

 

[rutland]

After talking to the woodsman on the ground I shoot I only found out last week that they was still shooting muntjac with shotguns, I told him it was illegal and his reply was he had read you could shoot them as they are classed as vermin in woodland. I have got it stopped now , how come on a fac you have to have a rifle conditioned for deer and boar but they say your allowed to shoot with a shotgun

 

[Taff]

As far as the video goes, many states in america ONLY allow deer shooting with the shotgun and the specific cartridge. That is their Laws. The shot looked good. Possibly slightly further back than I would have liked. What I didn't understand was the wait till it was so dark to go and get it ??...J

Not sure but from my experience of hunting in Illinois in late sept hunting squirrels, darkness falls very quickly, we have had people on here say you should wait 30mins before follow up of a runner.

 

[Jagare]

Sadly not everyone who has a gun knows the meaning of the word 'humane'. There will always be a temptation to shoot a deer for the unwise and ill-informed.
I am thankful that those who use the proper calibre of firearm and call themselves deerstalkers, are almost universally aware of the meaning of the word 'humane'.
Sadly most people have no idea what a 'clear conscience' means, in terms of all our dealings with animals, we all should have one.

.

So please tell me in what part of that video was the hunter unwise. ill informed. inhumane or disrespectfull to the game he hunted.

 

[Orion]

.

So please tell me in what part of that video was the hunter unwise. ill informed. inhumane or disrespectfull to the game he hunted.

I'm scratching my head about that as well. Looked to be a circa 30m shot from when the camera panned out earlier in the clip, perfect for the Remington Sluggers he was using. They'd done their preparation well with trail cam info and the previous sighting from the same treestand - probably just as well he didn't take the buck with the bow on that instance, imagine the uproar it would have caused!