Who, (and how) would impose any penalty for shooting out of season deer?

Alantoo

Alantoo

Well-Known Member
In Memoriam
Following on from another thread about shooting wounded deer.

Who actually Polices the deer seasons?

For instance if you knew somebody was shooting Roe buck out of season when no crops were under threat and no out of season licence held...to whom would you report it?

Or maybe more to the point, if you witnessed someone shooting does out of season, with the likelyhood of making dependant young orphans...to whom would you report it?

Alan
 
If i thought someone was shooting out of season deer i myself would report it to either police landowner farmer,,,,but if like i did it was an injured deer in my case it had three legs in the middle of summer red hot,maybe ok,,,, what happens when winter comes and the thing cant move,doug,
 
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alantoo said:
following on from another thread about shooting wounded deer.

Who actually polices the deer seasons?

For instance if you knew somebody was shooting roe buck out of season when no crops were under threat and no out of season licence held...to whom would you report it?

Or maybe more to the point, if you witnessed someone shooting does out of season, with the likelyhood of making dependant young orphans...to whom would you report it?

Alan
Click to expand...


the police - its poaching.....
 
redlab said:
the police - its poaching.....
Click to expand...

If they have permission to shoot on the land, or even if it is their own land, would that still be poaching? I must look up the definition of the word.

I understand the report would be to the police, but I guess I was thinking more in terms of proof required and likelihood of prosecution and outcome...fine / loss of licence and etc.

Does it ever happen, and if so, what were the circumstances?

Anybody with knowledge of successful or unsuccessful outcomes?

Alan

p.s. looked up "poaching" and I see what you mean...illegal hunting or killing animals, and only... "usually associated with land use rights" I had thought it was always linked to trespass...
 
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Alantoo said:
If they have permission to shoot on the land, or even if it is their own land, would that still be poaching? I must look up the definition of the word.

I understand the report would be to the police, but I guess I was thinking more in terms of proof required and likelihood of prosecution and outcome...fine / loss of licence and etc.

Does it ever happen, and if so, what were the circumstances?

Anybody with knowledge of successful or unsuccessful outcomes?

Alan

p.s. looked up "poaching" and I see what you mean...illegal hunting or killing animals, and only... "usually associated with land use rights" I had thought it was always linked to trespass...
Click to expand...


Deer shot out of season( without correct licence) is not legal = poaching
doubtful anything would happen unless we're caught in possession of said carcass
 
Wildlife crime officer
doubt anything would happen as it is so far down the list and the justification lies with the shooter
to be profiting from it or poaching to carry it out is a different matter
 
bewsher500 said:
Wildlife crime officer
doubt anything would happen as it is so far down the list and the justification lies with the shooter
to be profiting from it or poaching to carry it out is a different matter
Click to expand...

What he said.
But nothing ever gets done about it!
Remember the Sudbury butcher shop fiasco?! That even ended up on the telly, and instead of being prosecuted, he ended up with a mass of free publicity!!:doh:
http://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/showthread.php/80838-Sudbury-Butchers-window-display
MS
 
I doubt that any of us would condone shooting a HEALTHY deer out of season! However there are circumstances where shooting a deer out of season is perfectly justified:- (Taken from page 56 of Deer Stalking DSC Level 1 Training Manual by Donnington Deer Management) An injured or diseased deer may be killed out of season or at night to prevent suffering.
With that in mind (And if reported to the police) the onus would surely be up to the police (If they close to take any action) to show that the deer was not shot to prevent any further suffering from either injury or disease - Something that they might struggle to be able do unless they had access to the complete carcass.
 
FrenchieBoy said:
I doubt that any of us would condone shooting a HEALTHY deer out of season! However there are circumstances where shooting a deer out of season is perfectly justified:- (Taken from page 56 of Deer Stalking DSC Level 1 Training Manual by Donnington Deer Management) An injured or diseased deer may be killed out of season or at night to prevent suffering.
With that in mind (And if reported to the police) the onus would surely be up to the police (If they close to take any action) to show that the deer was not shot to prevent any further suffering from either injury or disease - Something that they might struggle to be able do unless they had access to the complete carcass.
Click to expand...

Yes I should have made that clearer, mercy killing of an injured animal was not involved in the scenarios I was trying to describe. Neither was the (understandable) error of mistaking one sex for another.

It was what happens or should happen if a number of healthy deer are deliberately shot out of season by an otherwise bona fide stalker on his or her ground.

Alan
 
Poaching is two different offences really, there's night poaching and day poaching. They have different definitions in law and refer to game and coneys. There are also offences of taking deer where you aren't allowed, which is a separate offence, often called poaching as well, but again under different legislation to what normal people think of as poaching. Taking game out of season is again a further offence. Although of course there are circumstances where this may occur legally.

As for any mistakes (for example if you shoot a deer that is not in season, misidentifying a male for female or whatever), this is classed as an absolute offence, which means the prosecution don't need to prove "mens rea" (latin for "guilty knowledge"). So ignorance or a mistake is no defence, but could be mitigation at court to minimise and sentence that could be passed.

Confused? Probably. The laws concerning poaching are piecemeal and come under different Acts of Parliament, some dating back to 1828. For example The Night Poaching Act 1828, the Game Laws (Amendment) Act 1960 and the Deer Act 1980.

Just like firearms laws, it's a mishmash and needs sorted out. Much of it was passed in bygone centuries when things were very different. Landowners owned vast tracts of land and of course made laws to suit themselves and ensured the common people didn't get to take any game. An example of this was shooting game on a Sunday. It used to be that the only day off for the common working man was Sunday, so they made it illegal to shoot game on Sunday, so the peasants couldn't do it.
 
One fairly well-known business man down here has lost his FAC for shooting a deer out of season.
 
As for policing poaching of any sort, that responsibility lies with the police. However, with cuts in recent years don't expect to see any routine patrols driving by your woods too often looking for signs of poachers. But, where poaching becomes a real problem, rural forces do mount operations to combat it. So the thing to do is report it if you are getting deer poached, or indeed game taken. As well as any game/deer poaching offences that are committed, there may well be trespassing with firearms offences that can attract big sentences and of course retracting of any firearms/shotgun certificates the offenders might have.

As for specific poaching offences, of course everything is evidence driven. If you have CCTV or perhaps someone recognising the bad guys, the police may prosecute, but of course this might bring it's own problems to your door. I believe successful deer poaching prosecutions have taken place where offenders have been caught in possession of deer and DNA links it back to where it was taken from (blood or gralloch for instance).
 
I also know someone who was successfully convicted of shooting a deer out of season. . it does happen, and apart from loosing his FAC and his shooting leases the indirect consequences of the conviction were severe.

Best be damn sure of the sex of the beast before pulling the trigger. . .
 
shortshot said:
Get a life and mind your own business would be my considered comment. Life's too short too waste it snitching.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your contribution.

As this is a stalking forum, deer, the legal standing of their seasons' and their enforceability would appear to be precisely pertinent to both our collective lives and our collective business, I am surprised you consider it otherwise.

The thread was not intended to be about the morality of either snitching or shooting out of season, but about the mechanism of policing the deer seasons. I was just curious about whether the seasons were actually policed or even policeable.

Alan
 
Accidental shooting of wrong sex deer will take place, policing will never happen, shooting out of season, a fallow pricket for the pot, who will ever know and what harm has been done. If you are stupid enough to get caught, then you should have your license revoked, not for shooting the deer but for being stupid.
 
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