use of deer park for dsc2

[sikamalc]

So where do you stand on artificial feeding of wild deer, salt licks, buttalo calls, thermal imagers etc., surely these are all just as false as deer parks?

I have occasionally used licks for Fallow. Especially a few winters back when they needed some extra supplement on one area, but didn't shoot where I had placed it. Calls have always been used and are covered by law, electrical devices not allowed. Thermal imagers are a recent addition which I have no use for, and along with drones to find deer I am not in agreement with. In the past we didn't need them to stalk deer, so I see no reason for them now.

Stalking is hunting, and in its truest sense its pitting your skills and whits against the deer and the weather, terrain etc.

As I mentioned shooting in a deer park to pass Level 2 is allowed by DMQ, providing the deer can act naturally? much depends in what you define as naturally I guess. To me they are confined and therefore you know you are going to find them and get a shot. Not so easy in the wild on a large estate or open area without a 6ft fence.

Like I said my opinion, and if folk undertake to do it, its fair play to them.

 

[timbrayford]

To me they are confined and therefore you know you are going to find them and get a shot.

QUOTE]

I don't agree, if you do locate the deer in a park and your approach is careless you will never get close enough to take a safe shot.

From the perspective of someone who has to buy their stalking by the outing the attraction of Park culls is that it avoids the hazards of expensive and timewasting "armed rambles" on ground on which deer are but a rare visitor, if ever there at all.

In my experience of shooting deer both within a deer park and unconfined deer elsewhere across southern England there has been no perceivable difference in the behaviour of the deer or in the weather and terrain etc.

I am happy to concede however that retrieving the carcass of a Fallow doe, Roe or Muntjac from an English woodland does not compare to the retrieval of a highland stag, but there is no requirement for the purposes of DSC2 to do so.

 

[sikamalc]

I have also undertaken park culling over the past years, and some very large Red deer culls in Scotland on 44,000 acres. It is not unusual to see deer in a park environment under a certain amount of stress when pursued in a park. Fallow will often congregate together in one large herd and start to mew at each other when they know they are being pursued and shot. To me park culling is not stalking, but as I say that is my opinion, I do not expect everyone to agree.

As I say each to his own.

 

[timbrayford]

I have also undertaken park culling over the past years, and some very large Red deer culls in Scotland on 44,000 acres. It is not unusual to see deer in a park environment under a certain amount of stress when pursued in a park. Fallow will often congregate together in one large herd and start to mew at each other when they know they are being pursued and shot. To me park culling is not stalking, but as I say that is my opinion, I do not expect everyone to agree.

As I say each to his own.

Admittedly my experience of park culls is far more limited than yours, but when I did DSC2 the Fallow deer response to a shot being fired was to disperse into several hundred acres of woodland, except of course those that I had shot.

However in a much smaller treeless deer park here on the Isle of Wight I have observed precisely the behaviour that you have observed in Fallow. Perhaps it depends very much on the deer park concerned whether or not the deer are able to disperse away from danger.

 

[norma 308]

just so we're clear the park in question would only be used if at all for the gralloch side of things should we be unsuccessful in concluding the final stage in a stalk elsewhere .
I'm glad however this thread has thrown open more than a few questions and in the case of less experienced stalkers I'd agree that culling in a park would not show the necessary skills to fulfil the criteria that a stalk in the "wild" would ,this wouldn't be the case with the stalkers I'm talking about .
park stalking when i was a novice however has taught me many skills in one day that I'd have struggled to have learnt in a yr !
the first was how to breath properly with 30 + deer 50 yards from you
I've been very lucky thanks to a mates generosity
so if any inexperienced stalkers get the chance to park cull get on it don't be put off by it not being wild it is very useful even if you don't shoot the knife work alone is worth it .
thanks for everyones input
Norma

 

[Cris]

just so we're clear the park in question would only be used if at all for the gralloch side of things should we be unsuccessful in concluding the final stage in a stalk elsewhere .
I'm glad however this thread has thrown open more than a few questions and in the case of less experienced stalkers I'd agree that culling in a park would not show the necessary skills to fulfil the criteria that a stalk in the "wild" would ,this wouldn't be the case with the stalkers I'm talking about .
park stalking when i was a novice however has taught me many skills in one day that I'd have struggled to have learnt in a yr !
the first was how to breath properly with 30 + deer 50 yards from you
I've been very lucky thanks to a mates generosity
so if any inexperienced stalkers get the chance to park cull get on it don't be put off by it not being wild it is very useful even if you don't shoot the knife work alone is worth it .
thanks for everyones input
Norma

Very good advice if you need experiance at shot placement and gralloch. Certainly builds confidence but it is to my mind and others not the true wild experiance needed for L2 but its just my opinion with 25 years wild deer stalking experiance, excellent mentoring in my early years and a professional Wildlife Managment Qualification. That said some parks are not for inexperienced shots from a safty point.
DSC2 has its financial challenges for those without land or access to it and I would not have gained my L2 if I had not got my own ground due to the cost for sure.
Each to there own and I can appreciate the appeal.

 

[Heym SR20]

Let's not forget that like all qualifications a DSC2 is just that - an assessment in very specific conditions. No difference from any other type of qualification - you ve studied, practised hard and are on your best behaviour.

The key elements the DSC 2 assesses are:
1) can you find, identify and approach deer to with a safe shot range
2) can you shoot the deer safely and humanely
3) can assess the deer for disease, and whether or not it is safe for human consumption
4) can safely and efficiently turn it from a dead deer in the field into a product that can go into the human food chain hanging in a larder.

Now with my DSC2 I demonstrated the above on three culls all on Roe Does in woodland in the borders. Roe behave very differently to fallow, muntjac or red deer, and the terrain was very different to highlands or southern woodland.

Does a DSC2 mean I am an expert stalker. Of course not, just in the same way that a PADI old water diver, doesn't make you an expert, nor does a corporate finance representative exam make you an expert in corporate finance, nor for that matter does any qualification. But it does demonstrate a level of ability and knowledge at a point in time. To become an expert then requires a huge level of time and experience. And most good experts will freely admit that with more experience they realise we how little they actually know.

 

[sharkey]

Are there any minimum size for "parks" in regards to obtaining the qualification? That may be the solution? I know for a fact that deer in large enclosures which are managed off the end of a rifle are much "wilder" & smarter than so called wild ones. I know of many stags which have died of old age, not a bullet in these circumstances. The old hinds & does are expert at teaching alertness & caution to their offspring. Once mum has programmed the chip in their head from a few days old, there is no getting them back. I'd much prefer to work with "wild" deer than any which have been caught up or captured in these "parks". I can always pick them, even after many years on a farm. It makes me chuckle reading some of the assumptions folks make about deer here.