Expanding Ammunition

[CharlieT]

Genuine question, do you actually have to use expanding ammo for the DSC 1 test or would, say Amax suffice.

 

[VSS]

Genuine question, do you actually have to use expanding ammo for the DSC 1 test or would, say Amax suffice.

My belief is that it has to be a deer legal rifle / ammo combination, but I'm quite prepared to be corrected on that...

 

[HeavySako]

Genuine question, do you actually have to use expanding ammo for the DSC 1 test or would, say Amax suffice.

I used Tipped SMK's on my DSC1. It's an ability test of the shooter doesn't matter what ammo you use.

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

ask the provider if in any doubt ,as long as its deer legal ,

 

[timbrayford]

ask the provider if in any doubt ,as long as its deer legal ,

When I did DSC 1 the BDS assessor checked that it was deer legal in all respects.

 

[palmer_mike]

When I did DSC 1 the BDS assessor checked that it was deer legal in all respects.

Would amax not be legal for deer then?

 

[CharlieT]

I don't see how it can be after the HO agreed that it was not S5.

But thats a can of worms far above my pay grade !!

 

[Flyer4u0]

It certainly kills deer.

 

[palmer_mike]

I don't see how it can be after the HO agreed that it was not S5.

But thats a can of worms far above my pay grade !!

Correct, not section 5. The deer act doesn't mention only section 5 ammo being deer legal tho does it?

 

[Orion]

Would amax not be legal for deer then?

I don't see how it can be after the HO agreed that it was not S5.

But thats a can of worms far above my pay grade !!

Being S.5 'expanding' as defined by the Firearms Act(s) and deer legal (in England & Wales) are two separate issues.

The requirement under the Deer Act is simply that a bullet should be "soft-nosed or hollow-nosed" and there are plenty of freely available target rounds that achieve that definition, A-Max being one (hollow-nosed albeit under a polymer tip).

Whether it would be wise to use a 'non-expanding' bullet that otherwise met the Deer Act criteria is something else, although if faced with a S.7 Permit restriction I'd certainly consider it (A-Max).

 

[Druid]

Correct, not section 5. The deer act doesn't mention only section 5 ammo being deer legal tho does it?

Not one I'd like to see the OP argue in court.

"So are you guilty of possession of expanding section 5 ammo without authority or have you shot a deer with ammunition not designed to expand in a controlled manner in contravention of the deer act etc"

It would have to be answered one way or another. Amax can't legally be called expanding cos the manufacturer says it isn't. i know now it's unlikely that this scenario will see the inside of a court room but there you go, up to you.

 

[Orion]

Not one I'd like to see the OP argue in court.

"So are you guilty of possession of expanding section 5 ammo without authority or have you shot a deer with ammunition not designed to expand in a controlled manner in contravention of the deer act etc"

It would have to be answered one way or another. Amax can't legally be called expanding cos the manufacturer says it isn't. i know now it's unlikely that this scenario will see the inside of a court room but there you go, up to you.

Certainly wouldn't see the inside of a courtroom in England & Wales as there's no such offence under the Deer Act(s) south of the wall.

 

[palmer_mike]

have you shot a deer with ammunition not designed to expand in a controlled manner in contravention of the deer act etc"

I thought the design intention of the ammo to expand in a controlled manner etc was only in the Scottish legislation. In England and Wales the ammo simply has to be soft nosed or hollow point?

edit, beat me to it Orion!

 

[Druid]

Well that looks like the get out clause the OP requires! Cheers.

 

[User00025]

Well that looks like the get out clause the OP requires! Cheers.

True Druid, the only problem being the one calibre I use all the time,ammo is only available from Germany and I bought in a large amount. It's bloody expensive and I aint handing it in, particularly as it's lead free. As a last resort I'll store it with a dealer and then submit bill to the Fedarales as my renewal was put in, in very good time.

 

[8x57]

gmp ,s do mine and another did,they stated permission to possess ammo,and as TFH,S we held those for a few months before the numpty,s gave us proper certs,which i still cant get my head around how can they do all the checks/visits/print off sect 7,s but cant produce a full cert on time, etc and not just gmp lanc,s and wales are doing it,as well

Presumably you meant North Wales Police. Unlike Scotland there isn't a national police force in Wales there are four separate constabularies.

As I mentioned in an earlier thread, my daughter was issued a sec 7 temp permit to enable her to use my rifle to do her DSC 1 shooting test. Ammo was listed on the permit, and, rightly or wrongly, I had it in writing from the issuing firearms dept that she could use my normal stalking ammo (ie, expanding).

That doesn't sound right to me, it strikes me that some police forces don't understand the limited extent of what a section 7 permit can cover. Perhaps some training of personnel is required in firearms departments or even just perusal of the guidance document occasionally.

I also think that some DSC assessors need to look again at what the test actually asks for and not what they think it asks for and how it ties in with the law.
There is also a tendency with new shooters doing DSC1 because they know no better to accept every single word the instructor/assessor says as absolutely accurate and gospel when just occasionally what some instructors say is just personal opinion or paraphrasing.

 

[Davee]

When I did my DSC1, I didn't have expanding on my FAL, was told ok to use TMK's but not FMJ. The later because the test was done in a quarry and a ricochet risk.

 

[Druid]

True Druid, the only problem being the one calibre I use all the time,ammo is only available from Germany and I bought in a large amount. It's bloody expensive and I aint handing it in, particularly as it's lead free. As a last resort I'll store it with a dealer and then submit bill to the Fedarales as my renewal was put in, in very good time.

It really is a farcical situation to be put in isn't it. I hope they cough up the cost, it would be nice to know if they do it without a fight.

 

[AN DU RU FOX]

Presumably you meant North Wales Police. Unlike Scotland there isn't a national police force in Wales there are four separate constabularies.



That doesn't sound right to me, it strikes me that some police forces don't understand the limited extent of what a section 7 permit can cover. Perhaps some training of personnel is required in firearms departments or even just perusal of the guidance document occasionally.

I also think that some DSC assessors need to look again at what the test actually asks for and not what they think it asks for and how it ties in with the law.
There is also a tendency with new shooters doing DSC1 because they know no better to accept every single word the instructor/assessor says as absolutely accurate and gospel when just occasionally what some instructors say is just personal opinion or paraphrasing.

it was north wales and it was tim,s daughter. the others in lanc,s where FB and friend ,gmp it was me and wingy,those where the ones i know about obviously there where others.

 

[8x57]

A friend tells me that it is fairly common for certificate holders to have to lodge section 5 ammunition with Norman Clark because their certificates have not been renewed in time and they have been issued with temporary permits. Whether the certificate holders have been successful in recovering any storage costs charged from their relevant forces I do not know.

Apparently one of the reasons why police forces have agreed to the forthcoming 8 week extension of certificates beyond their renewal date and for expanding rifle ammunition to revert back to section 1 is to overcome this very situation.