Brexit

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I read this thread everyday and find it I interesting, amusing and informative in equal measure. The informative bit comes in the form of people seem almost unable to accept the democratic will of the people as expressed in the referendum. There is little or no point in bemoaning the fact we are leaving, the production of countless figures all of which seem to get disputed by the opposing view, is pointless. Would it not be better to spend the energy in looking forward and seeing how best to proceed. Just saying :-D.

I decided on the use of English as I believe it is still of some relevance to this site!

John
 
Hornet 6 said:
This thread seems to have becomes all about money, we'd be better off if we did XYZ
If you only reason for voting in, or out was money then you completely missed the point.
The vote to stay or go was all about home rule by our elected government, for better or worse.

We fought 2 world wars for the right to freedom of choice and now it seem you all want to just give up.
I really don't care how much money individuals make, or loose over this, I don't care if you can no longer
afford a new car every year as well as a foreign holiday.
None of that is important, all that matters is the ability to rule our own country, I don't care about those
who choose to live and work elsewhere, I care even less about those that live here and work abroad, you
are just a minor and unimportant blip, which has nothing to do with normal people.

Neil.
Click to expand...

With you 100% on all of that !
 
Hornet 6 said:
I really don't care how much money individuals make, or loose over this, I don't care if you can no longer
afford a new car every year as well as a foreign holiday.
None of that is important, all that matters is the ability to rule our own country, I don't care about those
who choose to live and work elsewhere, I care even less about those that live here and work abroad, you
are just a minor and unimportant blip, which has nothing to do with normal people.

Neil.
Click to expand...

A very lucid if desperately sad statement, thanks. Also pretty much what the PM said at the Tory party conference. Essentially, I and my ilk are not "normal people" and we can f### off. So that's us told.

If the results of the local elections are anything to go by, it looks like in the end, UKIP was a sort of airlock to transfer former Labour voters to the Tories, who have now in effect become the English National Party, and will have a massive majority after the general election. Scotland will be ruled by the SNP, a very different sort of national party.

I put it to you that it doesn't bode well for the UK. And the EU didn't do that. We did.
 
love it,

we the british people shout about democracy, and it's plain to see that WE still have some that cannot,will not accept what the majority have voted for, i just feel the same a malcolm on this,


lets just just get on with it, for me it can't happen quick enough, I for one would love to just switch the light off and shut the door behind us ASAP, maybe then we can possibly start to put the title Great back in out name,

bob
 
Well I'm off to France today. Back on 16th. Ten days respite from Corbin, May et al!

French TV only in my appartment. The only things in English: Bones, NCIS, Dr Who!
 
Pine Marten said:
Scotland will be ruled by the SNP, a very different sort of national party.
Click to expand...

They are already pretty much, but the SNP are really Communists marketing themselves as 'Nationalists' and have grabbed themselves a large share of the un-enlightened folks votes as a result.
So, we'll see how that pans out sometime in the future.
 
Pine Marten said:
A very lucid if desperately sad statement, thanks. Also pretty much what the PM said at the Tory party conference. Essentially, I and my ilk are not "normal people" and we can f### off. So that's us told.

If the results of the local elections are anything to go by, it looks like in the end, UKIP was a sort of airlock to transfer former Labour voters to the Tories, who have now in effect become the English National Party, and will have a massive majority after the general election. Scotland will be ruled by the SNP, a very different sort of national party.

I put it to you that it doesn't bode well for the UK. And the EU didn't do that. We did.
Click to expand...

And,pray tell me,what would be wrong with an English national Party? The other three elements that make up Britain have their own National parties, why should be be the odd man out?
 
England. As I and other's have often said...England is Britain's last colonial possession.

Poll Tax, abolition of trial by jury for some cases, self-loading rifle ban, pistol ban. Tuition Fees. No English Parliament or National Assembly.

Sometimes it hard not to think that the Westminster Parliament regards England and its people as little more that "indigenes".
 
Last edited:
quote (I decided on the use of English as I believe it is still of some relevance to this site!John) After all john it is the international language of business
 
enfieldspares said:
England. As I and other's have often said...England is Britain's last colonial possession.

Poll Tax, abolition of trial by jury for some cases, self-loading rifle ban, pistol ban. Tuition Fees. No English Parliament or National Assembly.

Sometimes it hard not to think that the Westminster Parliament regards England and its people as little more that "indigenes".
Click to expand...


Bring back "Forelock tugging":old:
 
bobjs said:
love it,

we the british people shout about democracy, and it's plain to see that WE still have some that cannot,will not accept what the majority have voted for, i just feel the same a malcolm on this,

Snip...

bob
Click to expand...

The Brexit majority of 52% is rightly a democratic majority decision which we all have to accept.

The bizarre thing for me, is that few seem to think it is undemocratic that WE are governed by a party that many more than 52% voted against. And that is true for the last half century...even for the massive parliamentary majorities enjoyed by Blair and Thatcher. More than 52% of the country voted against them each time.

Theresa May will likely be re-elected with a majority in the house, but again more will have voted against her party than for.

And Brexiteers still claim that WE are taking back control from the EU!

A democratic minority view will be in power negotiating the terms of Brexit.

Germany with its PR voting system designed by the British after the WW2 has done very well in the world since, having been consistently governed by consensus for the good of the country, rather than the interests of (or for the good of) the ruling party.

If you want to get an idea of the balance of political thought in our country look at the balance of our PR elected Euro MPs. Westminster certainly is not representative, skewed as it is by the first past the post electoral system...

I agree...we should be shouting about Democracy. Put our house in order first.

Alan
 
I agree we should put our house in order in terms of democracy. But that is not what membership of the EU does for us. It demands that we bulldoze our house altogether and bed down in a continental dormitory.
The first step in improving our democracy is to repatriate our governance in its entirety and restore full accountability. Leaving the EU isn't the end of that process, it is the first essential step.
We are poorly governed precisely because so much of that governance has been surrendered to the EU and the checks and balances of democracy have been side-stepped.
 
The fourth Horseman said:
And,pray tell me,what would be wrong with an English national Party? The other three elements that make up Britain have their own National parties, why should be be the odd man out?
Click to expand...

Quite right and why not..But but but The English National party would be no more than communists marketing themselves as Nationalists according to deeangelo .. expert on all things Scottish..:doh:
 
Highlandsjohn said:
Quite right and why not..But but but The English National party would be no more than communists marketing themselves as Nationalists according to deeangelo .. expert on all things Scottish..:doh:
Click to expand...

Not necessarily, but just look at the backgrounds of the Trotskyite leaders of the SNP & for that matter the Labour Party, Corbyn in particular. Red flags over Labour town halls & their Red flag anthem. Hoodwinking voters.
I have no problem with Nationalist pride as long as it's not Communist or Fascist thugs.
There's plenty of Nationalist pride & patriotism in the USA and it's not all bad.
Just my opinion, but I'm happy to make it public.

As an aside, you have no idea of my life in Scotland, or my Scottish connections and family. So yes, I have strong opinions on the direction Scotland should be taking and following the SNP is definitely not among them.
 
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Finch said:
I agree we should put our house in order in terms of democracy. But that is not what membership of the EU does for us. It demands that we bulldoze our house altogether and bed down in a continental dormitory.
The first step in improving our democracy is to repatriate our governance in its entirety and restore full accountability. Leaving the EU isn't the end of that process, it is the first essential step.
We are poorly governed precisely because so much of that governance has been surrendered to the EU and the checks and balances of democracy have been side-stepped.
Click to expand...

I am always fascinated by the claim we are managed by the EU?

The EU has no power over anything except trade, environment and human rights

ANY bill or law produced by the EU has to pass through our parliament and be agreed as we have the last line of control

SO what exactly are you concerned about? Could you give me an example of this opresive governance from the EU that we should have faught against?

Can you explain why we had the right to veto it but our government chose not to?
 
Hornet 6 said:
This thread seems to have becomes all about money, we'd be better off if we did XYZ
If you only reason for voting in, or out was money then you completely missed the point.
The vote to stay or go was all about home rule by our elected government, for better or worse.

We fought 2 world wars for the right to freedom of choice and now it seem you all want to just give up.
I really don't care how much money individuals make, or loose over this, I don't care if you can no longer
afford a new car every year as well as a foreign holiday.
None of that is important, all that matters is the ability to rule our own country, I don't care about those
who choose to live and work elsewhere, I care even less about those that live here and work abroad, you
are just a minor and unimportant blip, which has nothing to do with normal people.

Neil.
Click to expand...

Very funny because the main reason I am anti Brexit is for the "normal people"

You are about to be screwed with a baseball bat of tax and loss of welfare and rights, and this concerns me

The porest of this country will suffer the most.

The loss of revenue for the UK will directly reflect in the reduction of government support for welfare

We fought in a world war FOR Europe and many Europien countries fought at our sides. There were more Polish airmen in Spitfires by the end of WWII than there were Brits.

I personaly feel the freedom to travel, live work in Europe was EXACTLY the sort of thing we fought for.

I personaly feel 27 member states working together for the beterment of the environment free trade and human rights, is something the people who faught in WWII would be hugely proud of

I personaly think the coallision of 27 member states through negotiation and democratic voting rather than a Hitler type domination by power represented a massive step forward in the evolution of the world.

Which is why I think we will be diminished by leaving
 
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