electic collars
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Les Brooks
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bambislayer
Well-Known Member
Emotive one this
I've had, well i don't know how many dogs, from terriers , labs, pointers, lurchers spaniels, some good some not so.
I got an electric collar about 15years ago and I think if used properly is an excellent tool.
I've seen some horrific treatment of dogs especially from the trialing sector
I've used the collar on training some dogs right from the start, and used it sparingly with some excellent dogs to show at the end, when I say they were excellent , I know they were as I have owned plenty bad ones, most of which would have been down to my inexperience at the time.
I m quite happy to zap myself with the collar, it ain't pleasant but it's not cruel, bu*****d if I'd let anyone hit me with a stick, plenty folk will say "I never hit my dog", look about a beating line???????
I just sold a GWP today, who at 3yrs old was trained with a collar, my vet [a pointer fanatic] has witnessed the full training regime and has never questioned my methods. Her only downfall is that she will now and then run in to a retrieve, if the bird looks like a runner[ie leg down]. Because of this , I decided not to trial her, because I personally wouldn't trial a dog unless I thought the dog could win!
Anyway my point is that anything can be mis used, a lead, a walking stick, too much whistle, your welly boot.
Remember no such thing as a bad dog just a useless human.
I've had, well i don't know how many dogs, from terriers , labs, pointers, lurchers spaniels, some good some not so.
I got an electric collar about 15years ago and I think if used properly is an excellent tool.
I've seen some horrific treatment of dogs especially from the trialing sector
I've used the collar on training some dogs right from the start, and used it sparingly with some excellent dogs to show at the end, when I say they were excellent , I know they were as I have owned plenty bad ones, most of which would have been down to my inexperience at the time.
I m quite happy to zap myself with the collar, it ain't pleasant but it's not cruel, bu*****d if I'd let anyone hit me with a stick, plenty folk will say "I never hit my dog", look about a beating line???????
I just sold a GWP today, who at 3yrs old was trained with a collar, my vet [a pointer fanatic] has witnessed the full training regime and has never questioned my methods. Her only downfall is that she will now and then run in to a retrieve, if the bird looks like a runner[ie leg down]. Because of this , I decided not to trial her, because I personally wouldn't trial a dog unless I thought the dog could win!
Anyway my point is that anything can be mis used, a lead, a walking stick, too much whistle, your welly boot.
Remember no such thing as a bad dog just a useless human.
Hales Smut
Well-Known Member
Emotion is indeed a bad adviser. No I don't kick my dogs in the ribs. That's why I bought a collar. I started training dogs in 1988, but started using the collar only about 4/5 years ago. I've seen dogs receiving hard treatments against wich the collar is a soft gentle tool.
No, you don't train a dog with the collar. You just use it yo make the final adjustments. Giving a stimulation on the correct place and time and not 3 / 4 / 5 mintues later.
In the old days the dogs didn't read books to know what the could and couldn't do. A true genuine hunting dog , not these modern white eared kittens , is a hard dog, a hunting machine , a dog that tells you where the game is and not the other way around. These dogs seems to forget things in the heat of the fight. And no these dogs aren't afraid of you. The moment they see the collar they jump up and down in the kennel to go out working.
At this moment I have 3 FTCH's in my kennel. I am 100 % amateur and don't train for other people. Just like Bambislayer, I only go to a trial if I think I can win it.
No, you don't train a dog with the collar. You just use it yo make the final adjustments. Giving a stimulation on the correct place and time and not 3 / 4 / 5 mintues later.
In the old days the dogs didn't read books to know what the could and couldn't do. A true genuine hunting dog , not these modern white eared kittens , is a hard dog, a hunting machine , a dog that tells you where the game is and not the other way around. These dogs seems to forget things in the heat of the fight. And no these dogs aren't afraid of you. The moment they see the collar they jump up and down in the kennel to go out working.
At this moment I have 3 FTCH's in my kennel. I am 100 % amateur and don't train for other people. Just like Bambislayer, I only go to a trial if I think I can win it.
Les Brooks
Well-Known Member
Wonder why none of the top trainers use them then.
Hales Smut
Well-Known Member
1) A lot of those top trainers use,train and promote those white eared kittens.
2) Whould they admit using one if they did ?
2) Whould they admit using one if they did ?
geoffrey
Well-Known Member
Hi i bought a three year old trained cocker he perfomed flawlessly when demonstrated, i took him home and after a bonding period i started to put him through his paces, he totally ignored me at one stage i thought he was deaf so back to basics, after a week or so i realised he was simply trying it on so i bought a paccollar, after a couple of days he was back on track, he still wears his collar on shoot days and if things get really exciting he just needs a touch of the alarm tone (no shock) and it stops him in his tracks, i cannot praise the collar high enough, its all very well people saying that if you have to use one you have failed.
personally i think that they are talking b******s
regards GEOFF
personally i think that they are talking b******s
regards GEOFF
Les Brooks
Well-Known Member
That's cos ya crap and can't train a dog, that's why ya bought a trained one
Les Brooks
Well-Known Member
Name your ftc's for me?
Anybody that works a dog through cover with a collar on is an irresponsible fool.
Do you trial your dogs with the collar on?
ash243
Well-Known Member
with opinions like that i wish you would keep them to yourself their is no call for insults and personal remarks
This has been quite interesting however the above statement I think is out of order. How do you know he is crap?
Maybe the guys circumstances dictate that he cannot train his own dog due to any number of reasons, however he requires one for shooting.
geoffrey
Well-Known Member
It never fails to suprise me how some people make rediculous statments without the knowledge to back them up. pack collar sell a fail safe quick release strap just in case the dog should get caught up, if this happens you press the tone button and follow the sound and retrive it. i dont trial my dog as he has nothing to prove niether have i, during the season he works at least three times a week often more. I would be the first to admit that i am not a dog trainer but i get real pleasure working him, and for me thats enough,
cheers geoff
cheers geoff
Jinga
Well-Known Member
I think the last 50 odd posts can be summarised as follows:
1. Like marmite you either love them or hate them.
2. For some they are useful tools, others dislike them, but they don't have to use them.
I think a bit of live and let live is called for and these insults from Les are a bit OTT. Dictating that I have failed in training a dog he has never met and calling others crap is a bit sad. However in the spirit of good humour and manners i think we can call this a score draw and agree to differ in our opinions?
1. Like marmite you either love them or hate them.
2. For some they are useful tools, others dislike them, but they don't have to use them.
I think a bit of live and let live is called for and these insults from Les are a bit OTT. Dictating that I have failed in training a dog he has never met and calling others crap is a bit sad. However in the spirit of good humour and manners i think we can call this a score draw and agree to differ in our opinions?
Les Brooks
Well-Known Member
Think you'll find the insults were sent my way first
Les Brooks
Well-Known Member
I will stand by the statement purely because he bought a "trained" dog and then had to use a collar to keep it trained
Wolverine
Well-Known Member
Think jinga is right,you don't have to use them.full stop.cos what les and I are saying is if you take them on right and don't let them run before walk u don't need to use them.there are always exceptions though where I suppose a collar could be useful.I have known of wirehairs not even feel the zap of a collar,either that or he was conditioned to it.The guys I know don't use them but it horses for courses.if you get decent stock and start right the majority of the time you should not need one
MarkH
Well-Known Member
Hi Guys
I have used an electric collar in the past on my viszla. She had been trained by me to the whistle and I could stop and turn her at quite some distance. Now I wanted her to hunt infront of me and point becase I wanted a HPR. The electic collar became necessary if she bumped a hare or couched up deer. By the time I could get the whistle to my lips she could be 150m away full gallop, locked and loaded. The protol I use was try the whistle twice and if that failed press the button. It worked a treat and was far less cruel than a kick, wack with a stick etc etc or getting run over or shot by a farmer.Being an intelligent dog she gave up chaseing game quite quickly and is still and excellent hunting dog. I could not think of another way to deal with this behaviour as it is difficult to find tame hares and deer to work with. The bloodhound never needed the collar as she was a much less kinetic kind of dog.
Any idiot can abuse a dog electic collar or not.
As usual on this forum beware the words never and always, and only 20% of what you read
ATB
Mark
I have used an electric collar in the past on my viszla. She had been trained by me to the whistle and I could stop and turn her at quite some distance. Now I wanted her to hunt infront of me and point becase I wanted a HPR. The electic collar became necessary if she bumped a hare or couched up deer. By the time I could get the whistle to my lips she could be 150m away full gallop, locked and loaded. The protol I use was try the whistle twice and if that failed press the button. It worked a treat and was far less cruel than a kick, wack with a stick etc etc or getting run over or shot by a farmer.Being an intelligent dog she gave up chaseing game quite quickly and is still and excellent hunting dog. I could not think of another way to deal with this behaviour as it is difficult to find tame hares and deer to work with. The bloodhound never needed the collar as she was a much less kinetic kind of dog.
Any idiot can abuse a dog electic collar or not.
As usual on this forum beware the words never and always, and only 20% of what you read
ATB
Mark
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Wolverine
Well-Known Member
Mark is there no deer park close to you.My first deer dog did exactly the same because I had put him on wounded roe way too young,my fault not dogs.instead of using collar I visited a deer park,with the owners permission of course,got him steady to deer,now he is worth his weight in gold,6 stone no fat.I think that he is so keen on deer because he got a chase young and then wound him back.Definitely not the way to do things though I was just lucky.Know a few guys who do the same with rabbits and springers for the trials,puts a bit of zip into them,none of these guys use a collar either,they go back to obedience once they get a chase and drum in the stop whistle.invariably once the dog is back in rabbit pen the first instinct is to chase.peep the whistle if he sits,big praise,if he chases go after him and drag back to spot where he ignored the whistle,might take a while but he will get it in time,no need to hit,kick or collar,just the scruff and a good look in the eyes,no need for collar or any kind of cruelty
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