electic collars

[Les Brooks]

what about good boy choc drops ?? do they work ?

No cos you'd eat them all before the dog got a look in

 

[Jinga]

We have one and it has been fantastic. We have a cocker who goes bananas when the collar comes out because she knows it means working not just a walk. The collar we have has 2 settings, one is the shock (variable levels) but more importantly the other is a beep. Because the beep also comes before the shock it is a warning.

The dog will get beeped 5 - 10 times in a day out shooting and it brings her back into line no problem. I only have to use the shock (on the most mild setting) maybe once a year on average to stop the dog getting into a dangerous situation when I cannot grab her.

I have seen it used on a human. My Corporals (at work with the army) challenged each other to see who could take the strongest shock. There are 8 settings. The bright Cpl bluffed the stupid Cpl and got him to take level 6.

It was all i could do to stop them doing it on their tongues.................

 

[65X55]

does nobody train dogs anymore ?

 

[Wolverine]

Electric collars are normally used by people who have completely cocked up the basics.ie no control over their dog/dogs.If the dog respects you and has been trained properly before being taken out in anger,ie owner f'ing it up not the dog and then in an attempt to rectify their own mistakes they zap said dog,not fair on dog or themselves.Take your time in training them and you won't need to resort to barbarism.At the end of the day no control means the dog has no respect for you,yes even when chasing sheep your dog should still come back when called.I personally would never use one,get out there and catch dog in act of doing wrong and administer a good shaking on spot,dog will know what it's for if you catch it on spot.At the end of the day if you know your dogs chase sheep they should be on lead at all times,otherwise bye bye doggy if anywhere near me.Once again owners at fault not the dogs

 

[Les Brooks]

Electric collars are normally used by people who have completely cocked up the basics.ie no control over their dog/dogs.If the dog respects you and has been trained properly before being taken out in anger,ie owner f'ing it up not the dog and then in an attempt to rectify their own mistakes they zap said dog,not fair on dog or themselves.Take your time in training them and you won't need to resort to barbarism.At the end of the day no control means the dog has no respect for you,yes even when chasing sheep your dog should still come back when called.I personally would never use one,get out there and catch dog in act of doing wrong and administer a good shaking on spot,dog will know what it's for if you catch it on spot.At the end of the day if you know your dogs chase sheep they should be on lead at all times,otherwise bye bye doggy if anywhere near me.Once again owners at fault not the dogs

+1
What happened to the good old days when ya walked ya dog on a lead amongst sheep and if it pulled towards one you gave it a good yank and shouted no

 

[Wolverine]

+1
What happened to the good old days when ya walked ya dog on a lead amongst sheep and if it pulled towards one you gave it a good yank and shouted no

Spot on les,I do that wi pups from about 6 months old,soon lose interest.Same with deer no control from start,your onto a loser.most important thing is to take your time wi dogs an not rush them.nobody wants a remote control dog,well we do but not in that way

 

[Les Brooks]

Spot on les,I do that wi pups from about 6 months old,soon lose interest.Same with deer no control from start,your onto a loser.most important thing is to take your time wi dogs an not rush them.nobody wants a remote control dog,well we do but not in that way

Exactly right, you have to put the manners into them and bring them on as slowly as you can, seen too many 12 month old super stars that are burnt out by the time they are 4.
I find it funny when people tell me how good there dog is at picking up and retrieving at 8 months old.
It's all about patience

 

[Jinga]

I personally would never use one,get out there and catch dog in act of doing wrong and administer a good shaking on spot,dog will know what it's for if you catch it on spot.

Oh dear.... given that a dog (in your hypothetical situation) is probably a good distance away chasing the sheep, then you call and it returns/you catch up with it, the you administer a good shaking (presumably not so nicely).

Now the dog has just returned to you and you give it a bollocking, what sort of message is that. With the collar you can 'reach out and touch' the dog instantly when something goes wrong and they know to stop what they are doing. As i said in an earlier post the beep is enough, the shock happens maybe once a year if there is no other way.

I have seen those who decry collars yet are administer so called robust shakings. Would you prefer a short shock or GBH from your owner? I know which I would choose. We have a fantastic dog as a result of a lot of training and a little extra control given by the collar. I don't need to advertise her pups, they sell themelves by her performance out shooting! Bottom line she is a vibrant and happy dog with no issues with the collar.

 

[Les Brooks]

Oh dear.... given that a dog (in your hypothetical situation) is probably a good distance away chasing the sheep, then you call and it returns/you catch up with it, the you administer a good shaking (presumably not so nicely).

Now the dog has just returned to you and you give it a bollocking, what sort of message is that. With the collar you can 'reach out and touch' the dog instantly when something goes wrong and they know to stop what they are doing. As i said in an earlier post the beep is enough, the shock happens maybe once a year if there is no other way.

I have seen those who decry collars yet are administer so called robust shakings. Would you prefer a short shock or GBH from your owner? I know which I would choose. We have a fantastic dog as a result of a lot of training and a little extra control given by the collar. I don't need to advertise her pups, they sell themelves by her performance out shooting! Bottom line she is a vibrant and happy dog with no issues with the collar.

Sorry Jinga but if you have to use a collar you have failed in your basic training, yes a collar can smack a dogs arse at the point of disobedience but you can also take that dog to that point and administer it, all dogs have to be kept on top of but that is just basics that you must keep up for the life of the dog.
Teaching a dog a new trick don't mean it know's it, repetitiveness makes it imprinted

 

[John Gryphon]

So they must also know they can do what they like when the collar isn't on?

Haha there is always one that wants the 'alternate view" and to answer your q`s no!

My own collar has 18 levels and my whole family have a lot of fun when its 'collar time' the biggest squibs are the blokes you know,the girls just cop the shock with no problems,here is one of my daughters waiting to get hers haha...we shared a bottle of Sambucca for starters!

Note my right hand,its about to hit it.....they are fugn harmless btw!

 

[Jinga]

Sorry Jinga but if you have to use a collar you have failed in your basic training, yes a collar can smack a dogs arse at the point of disobedience but you can also take that dog to that point and administer it, all dogs have to be kept on top of but that is just basics that you must keep up for the life of the dog.
Teaching a dog a new trick don't mean it know's it, repetitiveness makes it imprinted

Nope, the word rhymes with fullpit....

The training has achieved 95%, she is not perfect but she shoots 10 - 15 days a year and my job gets in the way of that last 5%. The collar gives a little extra control, not everyone can spend hours training their dog every day. The word fail is a pretty strong one to use. The point is I use the shock maybe once a year...the rest is the painless beep function that causes her to pause for thought and respond to a command. Taking a dog to the point to administer a bollocking is pointless. The dog has returned and you take it back to the point and bollock it, full of mixed messages. Like taking a puppy to a pile of poo and sticking it's nose in it, what is that going to achieve other than a frightened and confused dog.

Just don't buy the happy hippy line on the collars! They work and are far more humane than physical violence on a dog.

 

[Les Brooks]

Nope, the word rhymes with fullpit....

The training has achieved 95%, she is not perfect but she shoots 10 - 15 days a year and my job gets in the way of that last 5%. The collar gives a little extra control, not everyone can spend hours training their dog every day. The word fail is a pretty strong one to use. The point is I use the shock maybe once a year...the rest is the painless beep function that causes her to pause for thought and respond to a command. Taking a dog to the point to administer a bollocking is pointless. The dog has returned and you take it back to the point and bollock it, full of mixed messages. Like taking a puppy to a pile of poo and sticking it's nose in it, what is that going to achieve other than a frightened and confused dog.

Just don't buy the happy hippy line on the collars! They work and are far more humane than physical violence on a dog.

Fullpit.
You aint got a clue.
15 mins a day training is all it takes and manners can be added into the twice daily walk.
A dog associates bad behaviour at the point it done it.
What do I know, only been training dogs for 25 years

 

[Wolverine]

Jinga,sorry if didn't make it clear,I would only call a dog once if chasing.My dogs would respond as they have been trained properly without collars.If however they ignored me I would then get up off my lazy butt get out and drag them back to spot that they ignored me,administer so called rough shaking there,no need for physical violence just take them by scruff an look into their eyes,they don't like it but then I am the boss not a collar,question for you jinga are you one of these dog psycologists who give their dogs chocolate drops when they have done wrong,obviously not cos you would rather inflict pain from a distance with said collar when dog has no clue what it has done wrong.These collars are only used by owners who have not put appropriate time into basic training.simple

 

[Wolverine]

Another thing when a dog does wrong he/she is not like you or me they associate the last thing they have done with praise or scold so you must drag it back to spot it has done wrong.At least that what my old friend Kieth Erlandson used to say,an low and behold so does current friend Guy Wallace but then they never needed to use said collars,I think they may also be a bit more knowledgable about dogs than you also.Seeing as they both did/do dogs for a living.My dogs are worked every day too,not just 10 to 15 days a year.PS jinga I have never administered a shake or any scolding on a dog when it comes back to me,like you say and you are right there it will totally confuse and frighten a dog.next time the dog might not come back to you at all.ATB

 

[Gazza]

Just read through this thread and come to the conclusion that in 30 (big plus) years of training and working dogs I must be doing something wrong in that I have never used/owned an electric collar although I can state that I have seen many misused. I have owned and trained soft/hard and down right stubborn dogs solely based on a regime of demanding 100% obedience and not moving onto more advance work until the stage I am at is complete. I do not have to stop a dog from chasing sheep, cars or anything else that I do not wish it to chase as I take the time and effort to introduce my pup to all sorts and for him to learn what is acceptable and what is not long before I need to chase after him or need a collar to stop him. Tell me, what happens when you send your dog on a retrieve that is over a hill and out of your sight. He comes upon a flock of sheep, how do you know when to give him a bleep/shock or whatever.

My dogs are required to work 7 days a week from when my poults need dogging in till the end of the season. I have no time to be carrying or using an ecollar much preferring a reliable animal based on training and that even when out of my sight is doing the required job.

Condition and train your pup from day one with an eye on what you wish to achieve from this animal as an adult dog and there will be no need for electric collars.

 

[Hodadr]

To answer the original question before Les got in the pulpit, the collar was used to correct a particular issue, not general training. As I said, they are a tool rather than the answer. whilst dog whipsering is the ultimate goal of all trainers, the collar has its place if used wisely and appropriately.

I have had a collar now for 5 years, its worn by my trusty springer during the early part of the season but in the last three years i have never had need to apply the control, just wearing it seems to remind him its time to work instead of play.

I know the collar has resulted in a far more productive and harmonious relationship, i stand and admire the figure surronded by his pack of healed dogs sending them hither and tither, but when i reflect they all look teriffied of their master, do i really want that, no.

 

[Wolverine]

&1 with gazza.take your time wi them

 

[Les Brooks]

To answer the original question before Les got in the pulpit, the collar was used to correct a particular issue, not general training. As I said, they are a tool rather than the answer. whilst dog whipsering is the ultimate goal of all trainers, the collar has its place if used wisely and appropriately.

I have had a collar now for 5 years, its worn by my trusty springer during the early part of the season but in the last three years i have never had need to apply the control, just wearing it seems to remind him its time to work instead of play.

I know the collar has resulted in a far more productive and harmonious relationship, i stand and admire the figure surronded by his pack of healed dogs sending them hither and tither, but when i reflect they all look teriffied of their master, do i really want that, no.

Sorry am I not allowed an opinion oh wise one.
My dogs don't fear me, they respect me as pack leader.
So you work your springer through cover with a collar on?
Must be so nice going through brambles and blackthorn.
Your dog is frightened of the collar and has no respect for you.
"Harmonious relationship" my arse, my dogs work for me because they love to please not because they are frightened of what happens if they don't
Bottom line is if you have to result to using a collar you are a crap trainer end of.

 

[Wolverine]

Sorry am I not allowed an opinion oh wise one.
My dogs don't fear me, they respect me as pack leader.
So you work your springer through cover with a collar on?
Must be so nice going through brambles and blackthorn.
Your dog is frightened of the collar and has no respect for you.
"Harmonious relationship" my arse, my dogs work for me because they love to please not because they are frightened of what happens if they don't
Bottom line is if you have to result to using a collar you are a crap trainer end of.

Well said les,like posted earlier quick fixes don't exist in dog training,listen to gazza that the way.bring them on at their own pace not yours.the reason I am so against them is I have seen them misused big time.if you have a problem dog.ie sheep chasing I suppose they have their place if used correctly but if your pup is brought up right there is absolutely no need for them

 

[Les Brooks]

I love all these people that are saying their dog wears one but they haven't had to use it for 3 years or only have to use it once a year.
Take the poxy thing off then and you'll soon find out what the dog is respecting