Neck Turning Tool
- Thread starter MarkT
- Start date
Explain ?
It never ceases to amaze me how some of the forum members would rather sit in judgement than answer a straight forward question. I realise neck turning divides opinion as does for some, even case cleaning , but this is my choice to learn something new . Unlike some I was not born knowing everything, so to those of you who gave a straight answer to my original question .Thankyou .
Merry Christmas to you All
Mark
"The unexamined life is truly not worth living !" Aristotle.
Merry Christmas to you All
Mark
"The unexamined life is truly not worth living !" Aristotle.
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jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
I run a 6.5x47 Muir, can I ask due to your question, is it a question of some calibres benefit and some not ?
Jimmy
JabaliHunter
Well-Known Member
Probably more a question of factory barrel versus custom barrel and chamber.
jimmy milnes
Well-Known Member
As JabaliHunter said, it is a matter of the rifle and chamber.... or in rare instances, some really crappy brass. I just wanted to know if this was a custom chamber or a factory chamber -meaning- something that warranted neck turning or not. I neck turn cases but only when I'm reforming brass from one case to another. Quality brass is very good these days. It's usually not needed if it otherwise fits in the chamber. Like run-out gages, my neck turning tools largely gather dust. ~Muir
Mark. We are on a different continent, OK? Don't sit around and wait for one of us to answer your post. If you are getting up and reading a post over morning coffee, it probably means we (central US members) have probably just gone to bed. You never know who your are dealing with on the Internet but I can tell you that MTLF is a damned fine reloader and a shooter who believes the fun doesn't start til you get past 1000 yards....~Muir
This wasn't aimed directly at yourself or MTLF. It's the fact that I was asking advice regarding the quality of a product not as to views on neck turning .As for sitting around, I work upwards of 60 hours a week and have to squeeze in family life and what little spare time I have.
My reasons for looking at neck turning are simply to even up the neck tensions as some of the fired cases are still difficult to pass a bullet in post firing others are loose by comparison ,the chambering is very tight compared to the original factory barrel, Im not trying to reinvent the wheel .
There are a lot of people on here who have a great deal of experience and knowledge whose opinion I respect ,yours included . Believe you me I don't blow smoke up people's rear .
Yorkshire men are fairly straight down the line and generally very polite , hence I get a little offended by unnecessary disparity. I am however always grateful of genuine help , because someone has given there time to give it .
Regards,
Mark
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MTLEADFARMER
Well-Known Member
I realise that neck turning will probably make less difference than getting my breathing right. 
My reasons for looking at neck turning are simply to even up the neck tensions as some of the fired cases are still difficult to pass a bullet in post firing others are loose by comparison
If all your brass is the same make and has been fired the same number of times I would look at annealing instead of neck turning.
60 hours a week doesn't impress a farmer
Ask Santa for some thicker skin.
My reasons for looking at neck turning are simply to even up the neck tensions as some of the fired cases are still difficult to pass a bullet in post firing others are loose by comparison
If all your brass is the same make and has been fired the same number of times I would look at annealing instead of neck turning.
60 hours a week doesn't impress a farmer
Ask Santa for some thicker skin.
I have had a good push at reloading this year, trying to work up loads for 1000 meters. Neck turning was amongst the new measures I tried.
In all honesty, I did not feel it made a discernible, measurable difference. I do use quality brass, Lapua, Norma and Nosler, and on lower quality brass with more variation perhaps it does make a difference. I just couldn't prove it with the brass I use.
Sorting brass for capacity made a difference to ES and SD - amazing what that can do to pressure and velocity.
The other thing that made a difference was a Gempro, now measuring loads to 0.02 grains. That definitely tightened ES and SD which made a difference at long range.
What also made a difference was concentricity. My reloading obviously wasn't as good as it could be which was shown up in terms of poor concentricity with a Sinclair gauge. I traced it back to a bullet seating issue and when sorted with Wilson seating dies the groups tightened measurably.
So given my year again I would be buying the Gempro and the Sinclair concentricity gauge again, but not the rest.
In all honesty, I did not feel it made a discernible, measurable difference. I do use quality brass, Lapua, Norma and Nosler, and on lower quality brass with more variation perhaps it does make a difference. I just couldn't prove it with the brass I use.
Sorting brass for capacity made a difference to ES and SD - amazing what that can do to pressure and velocity.
The other thing that made a difference was a Gempro, now measuring loads to 0.02 grains. That definitely tightened ES and SD which made a difference at long range.
What also made a difference was concentricity. My reloading obviously wasn't as good as it could be which was shown up in terms of poor concentricity with a Sinclair gauge. I traced it back to a bullet seating issue and when sorted with Wilson seating dies the groups tightened measurably.
So given my year again I would be buying the Gempro and the Sinclair concentricity gauge again, but not the rest.
deeangeo
Well-Known Member
Way to go Nigel M.
If you F/L resize correctly with the die set so the expander ball is exactly centred, to measured headspace dimensions, using decent brass, any need for case neck turning disappears, case necks will be concentric to case body and I’d reckon to get max .0005” usually less, case neck/body run out.
This in turn will significantly helpfully aid bullet seating run out, especially when using the L E Wilson seating die.
Merry Christmas.
I realise that neck turning will probably make less difference than getting my breathing right.
My reasons for looking at neck turning are simply to even up the neck tensions as some of the fired cases are still difficult to pass a bullet in post firing others are loose by comparison
If all your brass is the same make and has been fired the same number of times I would look at annealing instead of neck turning.
60 hours a week doesn't impress a farmer
Ask Santa for some thicker skin.
My skin is very thick, thankyou..
After working as a stockman then a chef I do feel a little part time I admit . All the same I see home for around 50 hours a week ,impressing people is not on my agenda .( I forgot farmers are the hardest working people on the planet , for 3 months a year ). Back at Ya..
Back to the matter in hand . Lapua brass 1st firing . All fired cases measure 0.277 (measured 20 cases and all very consistent).Loaded ammo measuring 0.271 to 0.2735 ,again checked each sample multiple times .
I'm getting 1 hole groups at 100 yards but quite a big ES , so verticle stringing at distance is inevitable .
Here's my concerns,
1 You still believe in Santa
2 neck doughnuts as a result of very tight tolerences seen this on a mates 204
3 Large ES(vertical stringing at distance)
Merry Xmas
Mark
Happy New Year to one and All.
ByeBye
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swarovski
Well-Known Member
I only neck turn as the gunsmith who does my work has only got tight neck reamers.it made the brass prep a little more intresting but once you have mastered it it's just another process to do.i couldn't tell you whether it makes any difference but I can say my rifles shoot amazing accurate
Sounds like you have put some long but interesting hours there Nigel. Can I ask how you sorted cases by volume, did you weigh them and assume the volume was related or measure water capacity of each case? Also can I ask what the bullet seating issue was before and after the Wilson dies?
Many thanks in advance
SR
I think SWMBO probably refers to it as a sad obsession rather than long and interesting hours, but I found it very interesting. She may have a point.
In terms of the cases I took 100 Nosler cases in 280Ai and weight sorted them. After that I measured H2O capacity. There was no relationship between the two, not that I could see anyway. Did the same again with 100 Lapua cases in 6.5x47. Same result.
Loading them up with very precisely measured loads (Gempro - 0.02 grain accuracy) I found that there was a very measurable difference in velocity between the lowest capacity and highest capacity cases giving a high SD. Load up those of very close capacities and SD was cut to single figures. This is the single biggest factor i have found, outside of very precisely measuring charge weight, in minimising SD.
In terms of the runout, I bought a Sinclair gauge and found some loaded rounds had 0.001" and some over 0.005". Shoot a 5 shot group with those with runout over 0.005" and I was grouping at around 1". Take those with runout of 0.001" and groups were consistently inside 1/2". My brass was concentric at the neck after FL resizing, it was the seating die causing the runout. Changing to Wilson seating dies and an Arbour press very rarely throws anything outside 0.002" concentricity.
I'm sure it's all well known to the F class guys and in all honesty it's not very relevant to shooting deer at UK ranges, I just did the work as I wanted to learn how to shoot accurately to 1km. A little personal challenge for 2017.
Found out lots of other more relevant stuff this year as well. Probably the most significant was to do your load development in the conditions in which you plan to use it. 6.5 Lapua loaded with R15 during the summer with a 129ABLR was shooting little cloverleafs at 2910 fps. The temperature was 26 degrees. Tested again before I went to Scotland in 10 degrees and it's spraying 1 1/2" groups at 2870 fps. Another 0.3 grains got it back just over 2900 fps again and it was back to cloverleafs.
Now using powders with the lowest temperature sensitivity I can, which are not due to be banned in June, and running warm weather and cold weather loads trying to maintain the velocity node that works best in all temperatures.
This reloading game can be a never ending learning experience if you want it to be. I'm sure theres lots more to learn in 2018.
In terms of the cases I took 100 Nosler cases in 280Ai and weight sorted them. After that I measured H2O capacity. There was no relationship between the two, not that I could see anyway. Did the same again with 100 Lapua cases in 6.5x47. Same result.
Loading them up with very precisely measured loads (Gempro - 0.02 grain accuracy) I found that there was a very measurable difference in velocity between the lowest capacity and highest capacity cases giving a high SD. Load up those of very close capacities and SD was cut to single figures. This is the single biggest factor i have found, outside of very precisely measuring charge weight, in minimising SD.
In terms of the runout, I bought a Sinclair gauge and found some loaded rounds had 0.001" and some over 0.005". Shoot a 5 shot group with those with runout over 0.005" and I was grouping at around 1". Take those with runout of 0.001" and groups were consistently inside 1/2". My brass was concentric at the neck after FL resizing, it was the seating die causing the runout. Changing to Wilson seating dies and an Arbour press very rarely throws anything outside 0.002" concentricity.
I'm sure it's all well known to the F class guys and in all honesty it's not very relevant to shooting deer at UK ranges, I just did the work as I wanted to learn how to shoot accurately to 1km. A little personal challenge for 2017.
Found out lots of other more relevant stuff this year as well. Probably the most significant was to do your load development in the conditions in which you plan to use it. 6.5 Lapua loaded with R15 during the summer with a 129ABLR was shooting little cloverleafs at 2910 fps. The temperature was 26 degrees. Tested again before I went to Scotland in 10 degrees and it's spraying 1 1/2" groups at 2870 fps. Another 0.3 grains got it back just over 2900 fps again and it was back to cloverleafs.
Now using powders with the lowest temperature sensitivity I can, which are not due to be banned in June, and running warm weather and cold weather loads trying to maintain the velocity node that works best in all temperatures.
This reloading game can be a never ending learning experience if you want it to be. I'm sure theres lots more to learn in 2018.
Thanks for the extra details, really interesting. I'm sure our better halves would agree on the sad obsessions bit !!
hybridfiat
Well-Known Member
This:
Lyman Universal Case Trimmer w/ 9 pilot multi pack, #7862000, NIB | eBay
and this:
Lyman outside case neck turning set | eBay
I've had a set for years and they are mint.
Lyman Universal Case Trimmer w/ 9 pilot multi pack, #7862000, NIB | eBay
and this:
Lyman outside case neck turning set | eBay
I've had a set for years and they are mint.
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