BASC statement on Home Office proposals

If someone feels they are ignored by a BASC team, it will be unintentional, but let me know and I will try to help sort it out.
The legal advice at the moment is to focus on a targeted political resolution and keep legal action in reserve.

May I ask please David, in the very likely outcome that "targeted political resolution" fails (whatever it actually means and entails), when will BASC use legal action? What is the "in reserve" position and when can we expect this to be triggered? If BASC actually use some of its considerable means to enact legal challenge, I suspect that it would garner a lot more support, have more credibility and regain a lot of lost members.

To allow this state of affairs to just carry on dragging the ground behind the will of the H/O and police will just allow it to become common practice across all forces and used as just another excuse to delay processing applications and put people off owning firearms. That in itself, being the cynical sort that I am, might be seen to tick a lot of police chief's tick boxes.
 
I read far more on here than I ever comment on and have followed this thread.

When will shooters realise that the BASC is a self serving old boys club.
They rant about how they are the 'voice of shooting' when in reality they are for most of their members acting as no more than an insurance broker.
Shooting is in trouble and it is time that they stepped up to the plate and use the subs that they willingly take to protect the people they are supposed to serve.
But maybe that is the problem? They don't serve us. They serve their pensions and the kudos that goes with saying " I am the ????? of the BASC."
If a lawsuit was undertaken then even if lost it would send a message that we are fed up with being taken for a ride. The Police do not have an endless supply of money and I for one would be happy to contribute towards a 'fighting fund'. I don't care if we loose. At least we will have clarity and consistency.
But the BASC don't want a fight. What if they go bust? What if you go bust, so what. At least you will have tried rather than rolling over and letting your membership take another one in the a$$.
FWIW I haven't been a member for years, as I didn't like what I saw. I'm a SACS member and do feel that they will at least try on my behalf even if they fail.
 
Good morning ChesterP
The political activity thus far is targeting 135 MP's to brief them on the situation, we have also targeted some of the key members of government and are contacting key policy advisors and opinion formers. As soon as I can update further I will.
As to legal action, this will be considered as we have said should other avenues fail.

Ultimately I think we can all agree that we want clarity and consistency and that is precisely our objective
 
Good morning ChesterP
The political activity thus far is targeting 135 MP's to brief them on the situation, we have also targeted some of the key members of government and are contacting key policy advisors and opinion formers. As soon as I can update further I will.
As to legal action, this will be considered as we have said should other avenues fail.

Ultimately I think we can all agree that we want clarity and consistency and that is precisely our objective

Thank you David. Indeed it is our objective, but so is kicking the need for medical reports into touch. This ought to have been done at the outset IMHO as there are already procedures in place to flag FAC holders with all GP surgeries and to make the police aware should a medical condition rear it's head that gives GPs cause for concern. That, or correlates to a prescribed list of things that the police may wish to check further on. Sadly David, this point I fear was not made strongly enough during initial consultations between the BMA/Police and shooting organisations and H/O when the whole thing was first aired a year or two back. It has grown since then without any formal agreement between GPs and the H/O.

May I also ask what "should other avenues fail" actually means? Clarity really is needed on this point by the BASC...as we all would welcome clarity on what is considered the line in the sand.

My renewals are due next year and I fear that for those going through renewals between now and a year's time, we may find ourselves without clarity or common sense prevailing and the issue may well be no further forward. It would be welcome news to learn that legal steps will be in the pipeline sooner rather than later.
 
Consistent tagging on medical records is, I agree, a key objective. This was agreed by the Home Office, BASC and the BMA at the outset and that's exactly what the new position was, and all looked as if it was going well, its a shame that once this was agreed back in 2016 and once the new guidance was issues to this effect, that the BMA then seems to have advised GP's not to do it!

As I have said, a political solution to which all parties can agree is the best way forward, those are the avenues that are being pursued at this time.

I will do all I can to keep you all updated when ever I can.
 
Consistent tagging on medical records is, I agree, a key objective. This was agreed by the Home Office, BASC and the BMA at the outset and that's exactly what the new position was, and all looked as if it was going well, its a shame that once this was agreed back in 2016 and once the new guidance was issues to this effect, that the BMA then seems to have advised GP's not to do it!

As I have said, a political solution to which all parties can agree is the best way forward, those are the avenues that are being pursued at this time.

I will do all I can to keep you all updated when ever I can.

David, with the greatest respect to yourself, politically we are shafted. Not one of the major parties is in favour of the Public owning of Firearms and neither are the Police. Whichever way you push it, squeeze it or drive it politically it's a no go.
We as shooters know this, why can't your "Senior" people accept it and become more aggressive in their stance?
 
so what's the answer then?
protest marches?
mass civil disobedience?
death by cop?
apathy?
leave it to chance?
prayers,,,, sorry just had to.;)

I think as do many it seems,, enjoy it while you can.

maybe we could start donating all the old powders until we got enough to blow the HO off the face of the earth, [just kidding googlespies, just kidding]
 
Last edited:
We are not going to burn political bridges, we will keep pushing the political avenues taking forward our political agenda in Westminster etc. But on a local level when we find any constabulary not conforming to the HO Guidance we will:
Contact the Ch. Constable and where ever possible arrange to meet to discuss why and try to resolve
Contact the Police & Crime Commissioner and see if they can assist us
Contact PP's in the area and ask them to lobby the above to comply with the HO guidance
Any and all of you could do the same of course, it would help
 
We are not going to burn political bridges, we will keep pushing the political avenues taking forward our political agenda in Westminster etc. But on a local level when we find any constabulary not conforming to the HO Guidance we will:
Contact the Ch. Constable and where ever possible arrange to meet to discuss why and try to resolve
Contact the Police & Crime Commissioner and see if they can assist us
Contact PP's in the area and ask them to lobby the above to comply with the HO guidance
Any and all of you could do the same of course, it would help


So David what has happened with Lincolnshire has anyone come forward or are you going to talk to their chief con. Incidentally those who succeed do so by burning bridges - its taken as a sign that MR Nice Guy doesnt work.
Keeping politicians on side is a cost we cannot afford because no politician will be seen to be aiding the 'GUN LOBBY' or is this about who shoots with the bosses ?

This is absolutely my last post - despite extreme provocation.
 
So David what has happened with Lincolnshire has anyone come forward or are you going to talk to their chief con. Incidentally those who succeed do so by burning bridges - its taken as a sign that MR Nice Guy doesnt work.
Keeping politicians on side is a cost we cannot afford because no politician will be seen to be aiding the 'GUN LOBBY' or is this about who shoots with the bosses ?

This is absolutely my last post - despite extreme provocation.

I have say that I agree with this position.

The trouble with pinning your hopes on getting agreement from politicians is that

1. It's like trying to herd cats because, as we all know, politicians do things to win votes and get voters on side, however unpopular with a small corner of society that is;

2. When public opinion is swayed by false news, or media reports which have little to do with legal gun owners, politicians soon follow suit because they have to be seen to be doing something;

3. Politicians come and go like leaves on the wind. Ask Amber Rudd.

The only sensible way to tackle what rights (and they ARE rights, not currently open to the whims of chief constables or the H/O without proper legislative procedure) that we have left is to become more militant and demonstrate as a community that legal challenge will be brought switftly to bear should we be illegitimately denied renewals or grants which impinge on said rights and for which there is no legal precident.

It's all very well to suggest that us, the shooters, should be canvassing politicians and PCCs (I've done this many times) but surely our shooting organisations, the very people that we rely on to back us up and make not just a strong voice politically, but to bring the force of legal action to bear where and when needed, should be doing more in this respect.

I simply cannot see that political agreement will solve anything. It is too fickle and a bit like building on shifting sand. The BMA and H/O have already demonstrated that they cannot be trusted to keep their word, so legal challenge has to be the option now taken to make a point, and to make it hard, and to make us heard. The police are just looking to safeguard their own backsides and to reduce workload due to funding, so no surprises that allied to most CC positions of favouring a disarmed public, that they will happily go along with anything that meets those aims.

Again, our rights must be protected via legal position, not meaningless political agreement which counts for little to nothing.

All said and done, it is both the inadequacy and the ever expansion of H/O guidelines that seem to be setting the scene and determining policy, not the law itself.
 
As Kes says David, what have Lincoln said to you or have you not spoken to them yet? If not it's about time BASC did something positive regarding their No med cert No fac.
 
I just can't be doing with all this waffle from BASC, the rubbish they tell David to spout just makes the bloke look full of crap.

"Not going to burn political bridges", they mean fall out with their buddys in government (Who will shaft them good and proper for votes).

"Contact the Ch. Constable and where ever possible arrange to meet to discuss why and try to resolve
Contact the Police & Crime Commissioner and see if they can assist us
Contact PP's in the area and ask them to lobby the above to comply with the HO guidance"
What's that then, go and have a nice cup of tea with the big policeman boss and ask him nicely if he would be so kind as to change his mind pretty please?:gheyfight:

I give up with BASC, absolute self serving t*****s all of them. :suss:
 
David, BASC are letting the police/HO/BMA dictate what is happening - and what is going to happen.

Take the fight to them, rather than sitting in a castle, and waiting it out, hoping the enemy will get bored and go home.
 
[FONT=&quot]Taste of Game has launched a range of cooking oils to spice up everyday meals with new and exciting flavours.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The oils are produced using 100 per cent British cold pressed extra virgin rapeseed oil.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Laura Branigan, BASC’s partnerships manager, said: “The smooth, nutty flavour of the highly-filtered rapeseed oil combined with flavours ranging from the hot and spicy chilli to an oriental blend of stir-fry spices make classic accompaniments to game dishes and traditional meals alike.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“The seed is gently squeezed to release the oil. There are no chemicals involved in the process, ensuring only the finest, high-quality oil is produced, full of natural colour and flavour.

Worth sending a few bottles to friends in government ?[/FONT]
 
David, BASC are letting the police/HO/BMA dictate what is happening - and what is going to happen.

I'm afraid that this seems true. I would prefer the BASC to be reminding the HO and the Police of the limits if their powers under statute and the of the need for sound evidence of benefit when new restrictions and inconveniences are suggested.

What actaully seems to have been happening is a culture of 'welcoming' pretty much everything the HO and Police have come up with; and that from a position of apparent mutual understanding, if not first-name intimacy, with those very bodies which have at every opportunity over the last half-decade shown themselves dedicated to placing of obstacles in the way of lawful users of firearms, eroding their rights and reducing their numbers.

I'm hoping things will change.
 
I'm afraid that this seems true. I would prefer the BASC to be reminding the HO and the Police of the limits if their powers under statute and the of the need for sound evidence of benefit when new restrictions and inconveniences are suggested.

What actaully seems to have been happening is a culture of 'welcoming' pretty much everything the HO and Police have come up with; and that from a position of apparent mutual understanding, if not first-name intimacy, with those very bodies which have at every opportunity over the last half-decade shown themselves dedicated to placing of obstacles in the way of lawful users of firearms, eroding their rights and reducing their numbers.

I'm hoping things will change.

A few simple court cases where the police have exceeded their powers should bring them back into line. The police are there to prevent and aprehend people breaking the law, NOT make it. The BASC insurance should pay for it.
 
Good morning ChesterP
The political activity thus far is targeting 135 MP's to brief them on the situation, we have also targeted some of the key members of government and are contacting key policy advisors and opinion formers. As soon as I can update further I will.
As to legal action, this will be considered as we have said should other avenues fail.

Ultimately I think we can all agree that we want clarity and consistency and that is precisely our objective

The 135 MPs being "targeted" are the All Party Parliamentary Group on Shooting. They are not really being targeted or leaned on. They are the already pro-shooting grouping in Parliament and the so-called targeting is nothing more than a conversation among friends. Sure, it is a sizeable group but BASC really don't have to work too hard to engage them. The hard bit is BASC being a credible force at the top table, where, we recall, BASC is fully engaged. A bit like being the doormat for the HO/NPCC and 43 Firearms department to wipe their feet on. That is a more challenging group to influence, so BASC step back and spin that "135 MPs" are being targeted.

The fact that the BASC are attempting to convince us that this is a challenge is pure spin, smoke and mirrors and I am not taken in by it. I am dismayed that BASC are having a chat with 135 friends rather than a more combative legal strategy tells me they are not up for the fight.
 
The 135 MPs being "targeted" are the All Party Parliamentary Group on Shooting. They are not really being targeted or leaned on. They are the already pro-shooting grouping in Parliament and the so-called targeting is nothing more than a conversation among friends. Sure, it is a sizeable group but BASC really don't have to work too hard to engage them. The hard bit is BASC being a credible force at the top table, where, we recall, BASC is fully engaged. A bit like being the doormat for the HO/NPCC and 43 Firearms department to wipe their feet on. That is a more challenging group to influence, so BASC step back and spin that "135 MPs" are being targeted.

The fact that the BASC are attempting to convince us that this is a challenge is pure spin, smoke and mirrors and I am not taken in by it. I am dismayed that BASC are having a chat with 135 friends rather than a more combative legal strategy tells me they are not up for the fight.


For information. Under the "benefits the group receives from sources outside parliament", BASC funds, (rather members) the Groups annual dinner and secretariat the former no doubt attended by the 'illuminati' and a significant number of BASC people. Last meeting of substance - Oct 2014. I wonder what or whom that date coincides with ? Certainly not the recent 'difficulties'. I wonder who shoots with whom ?

Sorry, 'APPGs don't publish lists anymore - change of Parliamentary rules'.


House of Commons - Register Of All-Party Groups as at 30 March 2015: Shooting and Conservation

Lord Dear is now President of BASC.


It would seem that despite being secretary for this group of Scottish Parliament , the influence did not extend to mentioning the ethics of bending the Guidance.

http://www.parliament.scot/msps/animal-welfare.aspx
 
Last edited:
[TABLE="class: basicTable, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 6"]BENEFITS RECEIVED BY GROUP FROM SOURCES OUTSIDE PARLIAMENT[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 6"]The British Association for Shooting and Conservation (a not-for-profit organisation) acts as the group’s secretariat and funds the group’s annual dinner.


[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

every time I write how I feel about the above, it just appears as a long row of little stars,**** *** ****
 
Back
Top