Lyme/Borreliosis in Deer Stalkers

[Slurpy Sam]

That's as best as I've ever had it explained thanks.

 

[Alantoo]

So heres an interesting one...

A friend of mine asked me for some advice....he knew I had had Lyme disease...he had been bitten by several ticks and was now suffering joint pain.

I advised him to get a test ASAP, and to follow it up with further tests even if it were initially negative.

He went to his GP...in Alyth, so in the heart of 'tick country', his GP would not test because she told him the ticks were too small to give him Lyme Disease, and he had had no 'bullseye' rash.

Any views? How can you insist your GP does something if they wont?

The current tests do not seem to be very conclusive, and the classic bulls eye rash does not show on less than 50% but when it does it appears to be the only positive indicator. You have Lyme disease if you have one.

It is really surprising to hear your friend's doctor's response...treatment if unsure must be the best bet in the long run...you can complete the anti-biotic course while waiting for the test results.

Given that the same drug is routinely used to dose people up to prevent them getting malaria it is a relatively safe, tried and tested approach.

I went to my doctor last week with a hard edged and (painful like a bruise) rash, solid not a target ring. I am not aware of a tick bite recently. But given that I am taking ticks off the dogs every week and am in contact with deer and have deer in the garden, he thought treating it as if I did have it was sensible. So I am on Doxycycline for a fortnight. No tests required.

And I hadn't even needed to tell him I had been walking in a high risk area on Arran in June.

Alan

 

[rws243]

Thanks for the information, Lymes disease seems to be getting very common here in the west of ireland but at least the GP's are more aware of it now than have been in the past.

 

[Tansyjuno]

Thank you, Morena, that's a really clear and helpful summary of Lyme Disease and one that would put to shame the doctors who have treated my 26 year old daughter since she was bitten by an infected tick 6 years ago in Oxford. Lyme disease is of course a risk for anyone coming into contact with the right kind of vegetation, not just for those interested in deer stalking. I came across this thread because a patient posting on our Lyme support group mentioned that she had found it a very useful source of information. My daughter is currently en route from Washington DC where she has to travel to for private treatment. In the UK she has a CFS diagnosis because in spite of a host of other positive indications her serology, 4 years post bite, was negative. She saw the tick, had an EM, had a flu-like illness (all ignored by GP), typical accumulation of typical suite of symptoms over the next 4 years, positive LTT tests in Germany, bacteria in her blood filmed, and expected response to treatment. I have one question and one comment/contribution.

The question is about the marmite. I've never heard that before during 2 years immersed in Lyme literature, and nor have any of my colleagues. Could you say more? Normally we might suggest that people stay away from yeast products because of the danger of yeast infections, although we would usually recommend a yeast probiotic, S. boulardii.

I belong to a Facebook support group allied to an informative website about Lyme Disease but have just learnt (the hard way!) that I can't post links! Anyone suffering from Lyme Disease, or needing advice or help on diagnosis or treatment is welcome to look for Lyme Disease UK.

I am also in contact with a new charity called Vis a Vis Symposiums which aims to connect UK vets and medics interested in Lyme, with experienced clinicians and researchers in both professions, both from home and abroad, via regular symposiums. The next is in October this year, and anyone interested would be welcome to search for the charity online, view the details of the symposium, and make contact.

I hope it's OK to give this information.

 

[sikamalc]

By all means put up as many links as you like. I sincerely hope that your daughter continues to improve.

 

[morena]

Marmite is a yeast extract which is fortified with B vitamins. High oral dosage of antibiotics tends to sterilise the gut leading to a suppression of the the gut flora and diminution of the availability of these vitamins.Marmite simply supplements them is palatable cheap and readily available.

 

[VSS]

Didn't think I'd ever see the words "Marmite" and "palatable" in the same sentence!

 

[Loki]

Hello All

Awhile back there were I think 6 pages of a study on Lyme Disease done by a person at Southampton University posted up for reference/information.

I saved it for when needed but it seems that it was scanned in such that only the first page prints in legible form - the rest is pixillated.......... it could have been me in the 'save' process....

Sooo, I would be grateful if someone would post it up again or PM a pdf version please?

Many thanks.

L

 

[kes]

I noticed a news article recently in the national press which noted a staggering (360 to over 3000) diagnosed cases of Lyme disease. The article suggested the principal reason for the increase was not better capability to diagnose but to the increase in the deer population.

At least Lyme disease has a higher profile (apparently) irrespective of the cause.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Thanks Norman,
I had a rash on my leg so I went to the doctor today and he says it is a classic borriolose rash put me on doxycycline one per day for the next month.

 

[Girl_with_a_gun]

Thanks for such a thorough piece of work. Great that it is getting better recognised as I am sure we all have a mate/colleague who has been brought up short by it. Vigilance and the romantic post-stalk crevice tick search from the significant other still key! Small addition from recent discussion at work (which was pushed up to Tropical Medicine conference as I had requested Doc look at one of my patients who had joint pain). When I asked patient some targeted questions, he had an atypical rash (more like heat rash but had never had it before) and had been out rough camping for a few days. Answer from Conference was: don't discount atypical rash (or no rash). Take photo, monitor symptoms but if likely tick exposure, head to your doc.

Interestingly, although deer and sheep always take the rap, heard from vet that squirrels/rats etc are "ground zero" so maybe we need to get the .22s out and hit it early?

 

[Freeforester]

Just heard recently that the James Hutton Institute, in their infinite wisdom, have let go their lead research scientist in this field, apparently a victim of cutbacks; unsure whether this is a wise prioritisation of their funds, esp given some of the more esoteric research the body conducts, but of course tick bites and their related illnesses won't be any priority until someone of celeb/political status gets Lymes Disease...

 

[Glengarral]

Yep,the high profile victims get the problem into the news for a bit - Matt Dawson for example last year .....misdiagnosis .....suffering...... heart damage requiring surgery etc , but it goes quiet again until the next celeb.
Maybe it will take a staggering number of primary school age children in a rural community to develop debilitating lyme related arthritis to make the nation wake up ....just like what happened in America 40 yrs ago in a place called Old Lyme , Connecticut ....

There was an NHS/govt clinic/lab/research unit set up a few yrs back in Winchester I think but it was closed and the brains let go. ... because they pretty much instantly were far too busy I was told ...

Wouldn't want any floodgates opened ....

 

[Sylvanius]

Thanks for such a thorough piece of work. Great that it is getting better recognised as I am sure we all have a mate/colleague who has been brought up short by it. Vigilance and the romantic post-stalk crevice tick search from the significant other still key! Small addition from recent discussion at work (which was pushed up to Tropical Medicine conference as I had requested Doc look at one of my patients who had joint pain). When I asked patient some targeted questions, he had an atypical rash (more like heat rash but had never had it before) and had been out rough camping for a few days. Answer from Conference was: don't discount atypical rash (or no rash). Take photo, monitor symptoms but if likely tick exposure, head to your doc.

Interestingly, although deer and sheep always take the rap, heard from vet that squirrels/rats etc are "ground zero" so maybe we need to get the .22s out and hit it early?

Yes, I've found *far* more ticks on grey squirrels than I have on deer.

 

[Buchan]

Deer amplify the ticks. It's the rodents that are the reservoir for Borrellia

 

[mine2209]

Great to see this knowledge been passed around, I already know of two cases of lymes in Scotland this year at work. So glad to see people are talking about it on here

 

[GThomson]

Great piece of work - thanks. One thing: Quote 'Simultaneously the outer surface protein changes from OSP A to OSP C. This is the reason the tick must be attached for 36 hours or more'. Is the suggestion that transmission will only occur if the tick is attached for >36 hours? I don't think this is the case but just wish to clarify.

 

[Apthorpe]

Good question. I didn't realise a 36 hr period of tick attachment was necessary either. I had one on for no longer than an afternoon which gave the tell tale bullseye rash, fwiw.

 

[User00035]

I had two on me a couple of weeks ago. Too them off 24 hours later when I noticed the irritation.
One question, I could barely see the damn things. If you do have to remove them asap, how are you supposed to lever them off with a tick removing tool? There was nothing to get under. Pretty much a case of digging them out.

 

[Hayduke]

The Tom o tick removal tool comes as a pair, I've always found that the smaller of the two will get any tick out. The V narrows right down and enables you to get right under them.