Cant decide

[gentleman jim]

I suspect that a good Lab might fulfil your needs if you're not available to put the time in for one of the more 'focused' tracking/hunting breeds.
i have the time to train a dog and i am lucky enough to live near thousands of acers of forestry whuch is full of deer. just my permissions to shoot deer is 2hrs drive away!

 

[countrryboy]

I would be asking ur mates that are going to help u train it wot there opionins are, they might aslo know off good working stock in your area.

I would also read as much as possible and get as many opinions as u can before (which is wot ur doing) u get a pup. Some off the hpr breeds have a reputation for being strong/hard headed (which may/or may not be true) which may not suit u as a first time trainer, but in all breeds of dogs individuals can vary greatly and it's jist the luck off the draw, althou if u ken the breeders or the dogs themselves and have seen them working the odds may be more in ur favour(thats why mates advice is handy as u can trust them)

As a wee aside i see ur last comment about having plenty off deer nearby to train ur dog. I'm more into gundogs but (about to train my youngest lab for deer) generally training a dog to work in an area with a lot off natural scent is the worst thing u can do until the dogs training is more advanced. Training a gundog in a gamey area is a big no no until fairly well on and even then u have to be careful, to much scent=distractions=bad habits which can be bad to break at a later stage.

 

[gentleman jim]

hi countrryboy,
thanks for your reply. i never thought about too much natural scent would or could distract a young dog! but thats why i'm on this to learn as much as i can!!
i was talking to a fella yesterday who said he would take me out and see how his dog(s) work! at heal,tracking fresh scent and cold scent!
a good fella off this forum has kindly offered to loan me some books on dogs tracking deer and training dogs for deer! i have plenty of reading and learning to do before i do anything!

 

[sinbad]

Have sent you a PM.
Regards
Sinbad

 

[sikamalc]

Hi Sikamalc,

Was interested to read your comment about not recommending a Lab/BMH cross and wondered what your reasons were?

Afterall, both Lab and BMH are good tracking breeds, so why would a cross not be a good idea?

tha



50/50

This has already been covered before on the site. However as far as I am aware a few that have been crossbred have had some temper issues. But more importantly the BMH is a breed for blood spooring and has taken hundreds of years to produce a pure blood spooring dog. They are still relatively new to the UK, and deliberate cross breeding to me is ridiculous. But thats my opinion.

Best

 

[50/50]

This has already been covered before on the site. However as far as I am aware a few that have been crossbred have had some temper issues. But more importantly the BMH is a breed for blood spooring and has taken hundreds of years to produce a pure blood spooring dog. They are still relatively new to the UK, and deliberate cross breeding to me is ridiculous. But thats my opinion.

Best

thanks Sikamalc, I have a Lab/BMH cross pup from a mate. not deliberate, just a mistake. but I'm hoping to train him as a deer dog so was just wondering what my chances are?
He is also family pet and very good natured with the kids, so hopefully will not get too spoilt to work. any training advice/books much appreciated or send me relevant links if already covered on SD

regards
50/50

 

[sikamalc]

I have a gamekeeper friend who manages a very large estate in middle England. The estate has high numbers of Fallow and did have huge numbers of Muntjac, until the forestry guys got their way.

But to get to the point. The man had a terrier, I think it was a Patterdale. What a dog that was............. I never saw it track on Fallow, but Muntjac it was mustard. Great little dog and a real character.

 

[Dan Newcombe]

A BMH x Lab will do a perfectly good job as a tracking dog (as will most dogs). And as crosses go this isnt the most ridiculous i have heard of (eg. why cross a spaniel to a lab, or a lab to a pointer?)

BUT

It wont be any better than either parent

Obviously the one mentioned earlier was a mistake but why cross them deliberately, do people really think that they can improve on generations of purpose breeding? especially on the continent where tracking is such a well developed art.

Personally i think that the hounds are a bit of a fashion thing at the moment but there again there is absolutely nothing wrong with fashion and choosing the dog you want and the one you think is the best and they probably are a better tracking dog on a cold scent, 24 hours later after heavy rain but how often do you need that?

I would love to see a good tracking lab compared to a good BMH though, just out of interest.

 

[WAYNE DAVIES]

You wouldn't go far wrong with a GSP, I'm chuffed to bits with mine.

He's the kindest and easiest dog to train I've ever had in my kennels and is mustard on deer. I think he has doubled my success rate woodland stalking.

Good luck and whatever breed you choose if you have half the pleasure I've had from mine you'll be a happy man.

Wayne

 

[gentleman jim]

you have a lovely looking dog there! how old is your dog?what way does your dog work(to heel or only after the shot) i just have to pick the right dog that will suit me! and i want to get a pup from parents that are deer trackers!
going to start reading now on how to train them! that will be half the battle i think?
ATB
Colin

 

[gentleman jim]

Well i used to a wee patter dale the easest dog i ever trained to track any shot deer and would bark when he found them and you could put him in your rucksack take him in the house a good pet but as soon as he was out he be came a diffrent dog i can remember when i shot a stag and did not get it right i let rip of to track it not long before the barking then it stoped could hear a lot of noise went into the trees and here was rip clamped onto the stags nose geting swung about side to side any way peter pursglove was with me that day i was scared i might shoot rip so peter took the shot, i was never so glad to see the stag fall, any way you have to decide all the best

i have a pal in Co Down who's tracking dog is his jack russell! and to this day i still cant get over how well that dog track's!!

 

[WAYNE DAVIES]

you have a lovely looking dog there! how old is your dog?what way does your dog work(to heel or only after the shot) i just have to pick the right dog that will suit me! and i want to get a pup from parents that are deer trackers!
going to start reading now on how to train them! that will be half the battle i think?
ATB
Colin

Hi Colin
Thanks, he is just over three years old. I had him from a pup off John at Yorkshiredeerstalking.

He walks to heel 3/4 of a length in front, absolutley steady as a rock.

He was sat below a highseat a couple of weeks ago it was almost dark when a Fallow fawn followed the fence line up to within 10 yards and stood staring at him for 30 seconds before running off, he never moved a muscle.

I use him on 90% of my stalks he can indicate unshot deer on open farmland over 100's of yards and in woodland I cross the wind until he indicates a deer then stalk into the wind, very productive Even under the high seat I keep watching him he can give you lots of warning about a deer about to emerge.

He makes simple work of finding shot deer that have dashed into deep cover or made the wood at last light.

It all adds another element to stalking if I can stalk onto an unseen Fallow doe indicated by him that's better than shooting any gold medal for me.

Cheers Wayne

 

[gentleman jim]

Hi Colin
Thanks, he is just over three years old. I had him from a pup off John at Yorkshiredeerstalking.

He walks to heel 3/4 of a length in front, absolutley steady as a rock.

He was sat below a highseat a couple of weeks ago it was almost dark when a Fallow fawn followed the fence line up to within 10 yards and stood staring at him for 30 seconds before running off, he never moved a muscle.

I use him on 90% of my stalks he can indicate unshot deer on open farmland over 100's of yards and in woodland I cross the wind until he indicates a deer then stalk into the wind, very productive Even under the high seat I keep watching him he can give you lots of warning about a deer about to emerge.

He makes simple work of finding shot deer that have dashed into deep cover or made the wood at last light.

It all adds another element to stalking if I can stalk onto an unseen Fallow doe indicated by him that's better than shooting any gold medal for me.

Cheers Wayne

hi wayne,
now that is was i want from my dog when i get him! how much training did you have to do with him or did he do it naturally for you?
i was talking to john before about a pup but i was ment to move house and didn't so i couldn't take a pup from him

 

[WAYNE DAVIES]

Easiest dog I've ever trained, but I'm used to springers very bright dog once a he understands what you want the lesson is set in stone. He's also very crafty, if i've got a guest out and I've "dropped the dog" and continued crawling he knows he can get away crawling behind as I wont ruin the guests chance by chastising him, the bugger wont do it when I'm on my own , he doe's crack me up though he can certainley crawl flatter to the ground than I can cant help laughing at him if I look around he looks the other way and pretends he hasnt moved
Quite a soft dog (unless your a deer) would be easy for a over enthusiastic owner to ruin him.

Cheers Wayne

 

[gentleman jim]

lol PMSL i'd say your guest's get a laugh out of him!
i'm just dying to get a dog! what do you use him for when the deer season is over?
do you use him often?

 

[WAYNE DAVIES]

He's on deer 12 months of the year, I'm out most weeks a min of one outing sometimes alot more and he is with me 90% of the time, he's gets more credit with my guests than I do

 

[Stringer]

He walks to heel 3/4 of a length in front,

Hi Wayne, Just curious how you taught this. I read somewhere about pushing the dog ahead with a thumbstick but i can only imagine that the dog would resist. Have you also taught a conventional heel position. Hopefully going to have a go at training my new pup purely on deer (initiially) and what you have described is pretty much how I envisaged things. I currently stalk with another bitch who was trained on game first and although she has started to switch onto deer it is very much a scondary interest to her.

Thanks

Stephen

 

[WAYNE DAVIES]

Hi Wayne, Just curious how you taught this. I read somewhere about pushing the dog ahead with a thumbstick but i can only imagine that the dog would resist. Have you also taught a conventional heel position. Hopefully going to have a go at training my new pup purely on deer (initiially) and what you have described is pretty much how I envisaged things. I currently stalk with another bitch who was trained on game first and although she has started to switch onto deer it is very much a scondary interest to her.

Thanks

Stephen

Hi Stephen
Yes I read the same book I think, I did use this method then progressed to just the lead, then lead lay on his back (not holding it) and then no lead.

I've kept him just on deer but he hunts anything from a mouse upwards when tearing about with the springers at home, he's mustard on moles the missus wastes hours watching him he points for ages then jumps on them like an artic fox.
The other day he was flat out by the side of the quad bike we were both doing about 26mph when he stopped dead and went onto point on a pheasant, some nose.

When out I've encouraged him not to point deer as I dont want him stopping all the time but he just indicates by lifting his head high and sniffing the air.
He still go's onto full point on pheasants at home but seems to know to ignore them while stalking. Had lots of problems getting him off point with a very tame squirrel the other day

 

[Stringer]

thanks wayne.

 

[jay 22]

You wouldn't go far wrong with a GSP, I'm chuffed to bits with mine.

He's the kindest and easiest dog to train I've ever had in my kennels and is mustard on deer. I think he has doubled my success rate woodland stalking.

Good luck and whatever breed you choose if you have half the pleasure I've had from mine you'll be a happy man.

Wayne

what a beauty sounds like you got him well trained wayne