Wild justice challenge against releasing non native game birds
- Thread starter jimbo1984
- Start date
There must song title in this post ?
[/QUOTE/
It's prolly going to go like this ... Hi Ho Hi HO, It's off again we go!
David, I have joined the songbird trust - the thread above is about the WJ challenge and the consequences of it - one of them being BASC's (and others) ability and willingness to resist such challenges. As in Judicial Review.
The post above suggests that there is no-one but a BASC member that has an interest in shooting's future (Shock horror - a membership organisation has asked its members for feedback and published the results) - BASC has 150k members, if the publicity is to be believed, (no means of checking according to the advice from Companies House), so we'll go with that.
A reasonable assessment of those who shoot, including all 'types', must be around 3-4 MILLION- as angling is the highest participation sport with 7/8 million. So we have 150K held as representative of 3.5 (say) million - around 4.2% - so I think I have the right to question and so do the other 95%.
The real question is do you have the right to say what should and should not be posted ? If the owners of this site find my posts unsuitable, I am sure they will tell me in no uncertain terms.
I would suggest the percentage may even be lower for Wales - the subject of the survey.
I wouldnt claim to be the best or the 'voice of anything' with less than 5 % view from the participants assuming all of them replied (which I doubt). thats less proportionately than the Monster Raving Looney Party polled in by elections when they lost their deposit.
As for supporting shooting --- for you, a cheap shot and as you well know, I do, but in my own way. I would hazard a guess that there aren't that many who have written to MP's DEFRA, EFRA Responded to consultations (official) as much as I have. I'm happy I do my bit.
Just try to make BASC better so more will join based on PERFORMANCE.
Do not try to control dissenting voices with positive intent - that would be doubly foolish. Besides that only happens on PW.
TA as you say.
Kes, 
................ unless and until a decent goal is scored against the other side, whomever the other side / sides may be on the day.
................ unless and until a decent goal is scored against the other side, whomever the other side / sides may be on the day.
There must song title in this post ?
One or two spring to mind....
Bucks Fizz ( making your mind up)
The Equals ( come back )
Tim.243
I would keep the info in the thread - True Colours and use that when BASC have their day at the next phase of WJ's JR. I like the phrase by CP, "shooting -you're spent". I would also use his comments on cancer etc as a vivid character assessment and as a reference for how likely he and his ilk are to tell the truth.
The independent research clearly indicates that there are around 460000 live quarry shooters in the UK, and this threat from WJ targets them. BASC is thus well represented in this market.
As I said, the defence and promotion of shooting rests with those who shoot, following the Code of Good Shooting Practice, if they do not then shooting will be in disrepute and thus all but impossible to sustain.
Bashing shooting orgs will not help , support your chosen organisation and follow the Codes of Practice.
David
As I said, the defence and promotion of shooting rests with those who shoot, following the Code of Good Shooting Practice, if they do not then shooting will be in disrepute and thus all but impossible to sustain.
Bashing shooting orgs will not help , support your chosen organisation and follow the Codes of Practice.
David
David,
WJ are targeting everyone who uses a gun for shooting. The GL first, now reared game, so its all shooters. Even clay shooters have an interest in what happens.
If BASC are so well 'represented', then why such poor outcomes ? Bashing shooting orgs is intended to make them realise they arent doing a good job, some better than others BASC isnt the only shooting org and there would be fewer if they had not split from BASC or otherwise become dissatisfied.
My view is simple I wont pay for what we get now - I can do better myself - with the other shooters who are beyond institutionalisation as BASC people.
BASC can demand nothing until it is an organisation almost beyond criticism - you will have noticed I am not the only one.
I could go on but wont since I have other things to do - so does BASC.
WJ are targeting everyone who uses a gun for shooting. The GL first, now reared game, so its all shooters. Even clay shooters have an interest in what happens.
If BASC are so well 'represented', then why such poor outcomes ? Bashing shooting orgs is intended to make them realise they arent doing a good job, some better than others BASC isnt the only shooting org and there would be fewer if they had not split from BASC or otherwise become dissatisfied.
My view is simple I wont pay for what we get now - I can do better myself - with the other shooters who are beyond institutionalisation as BASC people.
BASC can demand nothing until it is an organisation almost beyond criticism - you will have noticed I am not the only one.
I could go on but wont since I have other things to do - so does BASC.
Just because WJ exercised their legal right over the GL's or more recently over driven game shooting ,you can hardly blame BASC! As you may know, everyone has the right to go to court and it’s a matter for judges and juries to determine if their claims are frivolous or otherwise unfit.
Working together the shooting organisations and DEFRA got the new GL's up and running. Now working with our network of friendly politicians we have secure the clear commitment from DEFRA to robustly defend the proposed attack by WJ on driven game shooting, hardly a poor outcome.
And working together the main Orgs produce promote and distribute the Code of Good Shooting Practice, and if you, or anyone else for that matter would like me to send you some hard copies so you can hand them out to the shooters you know, just let me know, I will be happy to post them out to you, or you may prefer to send them the code by way of a link, here it is: Code of Good Shooting Practice - BASC
Other codes are also available, see here: Codes of practice - BASC
David
Working together the shooting organisations and DEFRA got the new GL's up and running. Now working with our network of friendly politicians we have secure the clear commitment from DEFRA to robustly defend the proposed attack by WJ on driven game shooting, hardly a poor outcome.
And working together the main Orgs produce promote and distribute the Code of Good Shooting Practice, and if you, or anyone else for that matter would like me to send you some hard copies so you can hand them out to the shooters you know, just let me know, I will be happy to post them out to you, or you may prefer to send them the code by way of a link, here it is: Code of Good Shooting Practice - BASC
Other codes are also available, see here: Codes of practice - BASC
David
Terrific David, what about police making up their own rules on medicals? Particularly those who started it all and were never even challenged by BASC, Lincolnshire. If you had gone for them straight after they said it on TV we would not have more and more asking for it now. Even a thick old gamey like me can see the balls up there.
Meanwhile, its one step forward and two back as usual in the shooting industry. It won't be Wild Justice that gets shooting stopped in the end, it will be idiots like this and the landowners, sporting agents and defence barristers that support them.
www.thetimes.co.uk
Gamekeeper killed protected species
A gamekeeper shot dead badgers and buzzards and set dozens of illegal snares in Scottish woodland in what one wildlife expert described as the greatest cull of protected species he had ever seen. Alan Wilson, 60, has pleaded guilty to priming 23 illegal snares in a small wood on the Berwickshi
www.thetimes.co.uk
Newspaper and TV editors have control over what's published. Yes BASC has been on TV and radio and published in the national press putting forward the facts. And more will need to be done.
BASC did challenge the constabularies on medicals, all this goes back several years as clearly shown in the letter we sent to the minister , linked again here: https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2019/07/BASC-Response-to-Nick-Hurd-MP.pdf As you may know, the chief officer of police has the responsibility to ensure that when or she grants or renews, the process is compliant with the firearms act, and part of the issue, and not just on medical involvement, is that the act is a complex beast open to interpretation, hence the HO guidance which went some way to helping towards consistence, and the latest consultation will, we all hope, take us further forward
BASC did challenge the constabularies on medicals, all this goes back several years as clearly shown in the letter we sent to the minister , linked again here: https://basc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2019/07/BASC-Response-to-Nick-Hurd-MP.pdf As you may know, the chief officer of police has the responsibility to ensure that when or she grants or renews, the process is compliant with the firearms act, and part of the issue, and not just on medical involvement, is that the act is a complex beast open to interpretation, hence the HO guidance which went some way to helping towards consistence, and the latest consultation will, we all hope, take us further forward
Can you not suggest a live TV debate with WJ ?
I find this a touch unreasonable since 4000 responses were received and innumerable people complained directly but, hey ho, it was ever thus - perhaps we should leave it all to BASC seeing as how its so successful. Working together the shooting organisations and DEFRA got the new GL's up and running.
I find the statements about medicals disturbing - BASC are saying that legally chief cons can do what they want with the interpretation of HO Guidance as they are the final arbiter since they are 'guardians' of the Public Safety - rather a joke in itself, but, and its a big one NONE of the people who have put the public at risk are shooters who have been properly assessed through any previous system of application.
Hamilton was the Police's fault he shouldn't have been let near a cap gun and it was obvious to many in the Police SERVICE, Durham et al, and so forth and BASC lie supine, over radical changes to certificates by chief cons, non of which will enhance public safety (with the exception perhaps of the firearms marker which isnt universally being applied). On its own it would have been welcomed and presumably nil cost.
What is being done in our name is not enough IMHO.
Design standards or expert advice at national level cannot be changed on a whim - even a chief constables without consultation and thoroughly good reasons based in fact. So now HO are giving the consultation which will legitimise what is currently illegitimate and goes unchallenged. How can they establish the necessity for additional medical checks when they could not effectively implement previous ones ?
Publish the legal advice not to go for JR or accept it was wrong not to try.
I have read the Codes of Practice and find them simplistic and obvious but then the public can see what is encouraged so - fine, but - I'm sorry there is no point in labouring the truth with BASC, the past 3 years have proved that - just give me my ten year cert ( oh Yes) and let them charge me what they like for medicals whilst the reputation of shooting sports and BASC slip down the pan on the performance of the two CEO's prior to the current one. Loads of catching up to do to restore that alone.
Is it any wonder why people cannot see why they should join, apart from shoot insurance offered - singularly cheaper elsewhere.
I will not join BASC whilst its utterances are facile and its work confined to the 'easier' things.
Friends in Parliament doesnt cut it like it might have in the time of McMillan or Home. I'm out of this pointless exchange.
I find the statements about medicals disturbing - BASC are saying that legally chief cons can do what they want with the interpretation of HO Guidance as they are the final arbiter since they are 'guardians' of the Public Safety - rather a joke in itself, but, and its a big one NONE of the people who have put the public at risk are shooters who have been properly assessed through any previous system of application.
Hamilton was the Police's fault he shouldn't have been let near a cap gun and it was obvious to many in the Police SERVICE, Durham et al, and so forth and BASC lie supine, over radical changes to certificates by chief cons, non of which will enhance public safety (with the exception perhaps of the firearms marker which isnt universally being applied). On its own it would have been welcomed and presumably nil cost.
What is being done in our name is not enough IMHO.
Design standards or expert advice at national level cannot be changed on a whim - even a chief constables without consultation and thoroughly good reasons based in fact. So now HO are giving the consultation which will legitimise what is currently illegitimate and goes unchallenged. How can they establish the necessity for additional medical checks when they could not effectively implement previous ones ?
Publish the legal advice not to go for JR or accept it was wrong not to try.
I have read the Codes of Practice and find them simplistic and obvious but then the public can see what is encouraged so - fine, but - I'm sorry there is no point in labouring the truth with BASC, the past 3 years have proved that - just give me my ten year cert ( oh Yes) and let them charge me what they like for medicals whilst the reputation of shooting sports and BASC slip down the pan on the performance of the two CEO's prior to the current one. Loads of catching up to do to restore that alone.
Is it any wonder why people cannot see why they should join, apart from shoot insurance offered - singularly cheaper elsewhere.
I will not join BASC whilst its utterances are facile and its work confined to the 'easier' things.
Friends in Parliament doesnt cut it like it might have in the time of McMillan or Home. I'm out of this pointless exchange.
BASC's positions on WJ and on the HO consultation and what we are doing and what we are aiming to deliver are clear and on our web site for all to see, members and non members.
I hope and trust will get the support of shooters, regardless of their chosen discipline
David
I hope and trust will get the support of shooters, regardless of their chosen discipline
David
Sinistral
Well-Known Member
Meanwhile, its one step forward and two back as usual in the shooting industry. It won't be Wild Justice that gets shooting stopped in the end, it will be idiots like this and the landowners, sporting agents and defence barristers that support them.
Gamekeeper killed protected species
A gamekeeper shot dead badgers and buzzards and set dozens of illegal snares in Scottish woodland in what one wildlife expert described as the greatest cull of protected species he had ever seen. Alan Wilson, 60, has pleaded guilty to priming 23 illegal snares in a small wood on the Berwickshi
Here's another more accessible link........
Convicted Scottish gamekeeper Alan Wilson & his litany of wildlife crimes
Further to the news yesterday that Scottish gamekeeper Alan Wilson, 60, had pleaded guilty to nine of the 12 charges of wildlife crime against him (see here), here is some further detail. From The …
raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com
Note the title of the URL........
reloader54
Well-Known Member
I'm led to believe this was at packhams insistence, It was quoted in print at the time if I recall. it's his normal method of operation If he can stifle any opposition or his dialogue can be refuted he simply insists on being the sole interviewee, thus his side of the debate is the only option.
Call him out, invite him to your (our) media centre
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