need some christmas trees!

[flyingfisherman]

Not the big ones, some saplings to plant in a pheasant pen for cover.. The woods are a bit draughty and i think that small firs will help stop the wind while also being safe from bambi inside the pens. I can also harvest them at this time of year in 4-5 years time.

SO.. where can i get some saplings reasonably priced and would i assume that april/may would be the time to plant?

 

[centralbeltstalker]

i shoot a well grown forest and it has a lot of self planters that are about 1/3 inches tall.
they would be great for you shame that your so far from me.
i would let you have a bag full for free mate.
i hope someone closer maybe able to assist

there is also some fast growing alternatives available.
i seen it in one of the shooting mags.

atb f

 

[Dan Gliballs]

We use this lot for our trees. Nearly half a million last year.

Some nice Scots or Lodge Pole will thicken up the wood, also the Lodge Pole is great for Xmas trees

http://www.christie-elite.co.uk/

 

[arthursc]

Hi Ben,

I have 10 acres of young ferns. Douglas and Sitka. They take about 10 years to get to the point where you'll look to do the 1st thinning. I put down 200 birds and they have only really started to use them for cover. No pen here just point out. This morning they were all under them and using the feeders quite heavily...then I shot the roe doe and they all F***ked off.lol

For roosting type of cover then I would get some of the fast growing cover trees you see advertised in the shooting times, as mentioned by central_stalker.

If you need a chat then pm me and I will give you my number.

Mailorder is your best bet and be sure to get 40" saplings and tubes.

April/may or slightly before is ok, but chat with the seller. He is best to advise. Soil condition is the key to success here.

Regards
Colin.

 

[flyingfisherman]

The pens are in deciduous woodland, its not overly dense but the trees are all mature. Just also wondering if spruce or the likes will grow under the summer canopy? Ive also thought about rhododendron. I plan on planting some willows along the wood edge to provide wind breaks from ground level to maybe 5' high..

Any advice or thoughts appreciated..

 

[arthursc]

Hi,

Thats a good site...thanks.

ArthursC

 

[dspensley]

Hi
Try http://www.thorpetrees.com/ not far from you at thorpe underwood

 

[cookingfat]

hopefully stone who is a member of the sd will see this ! he's your man you need to speake to, allow i think he maybe fed up to back teeth with christmas trees by now!

Anthony

 

[6pointer]

http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/fcin26.pdf/$FILE/fcin26.pdf SUPER SITKA Contact natural england or any other group of its type they will give you trees to plant for free

 

[zaitsev]

If you have full summer canopy you will need a shade tolerant species. Spruce and the firs are light demanders and will not thrive. Western hemlock is the classic for planting in such a situation but this type of underplanting with exotics in native broadleaf is now frowned upon as it changes the soil conditions among other things. Happened a lot in the 50s-70s and is now distinctly out of fashion. You would be better off using native shade tolerant or semi shade tolerant species such as yew, holly, box etc perhaps with some hazel and goat willow in the areas with dappled rather than heavy shade. You may also consider (if you have control of the wood) the potential for benefitting from a Woodland Improvement Grant from the FC to accomplish part of your work.

Please please please don't plant Rhododendron, Laurel, Snowberry or Mahonia. They're nightmares to eradicate once established and outcompete most natives to the long term detriment of the woods.

Feel free to PM me if you wish. I'll be happy to advise if required.

 

[scotspine]

Try http://www.albatrees.co.uk/

Spruce can suffer under a canopy especially if the soil is dry. Lodgepole and Scots pine might produce Xmas trees but will the birds not spoil the foliage? Western red cedar and Western hemlock good but can become a weed. You’re probably better to go for (native) stuff that you can cut back to stop them becoming leggy and encourage to bush out and provide cover right down to ground level. Holly and beech can provide great cover as will juniper in the right location. Have a look at what ground/shrub cover does well on other areas as this will save you wasting money experimenting. Rhododendron ponticum should be banned! It will take over given time and can cost £10000/ha to remove.

 

[ecoman]

I back zaitsev 100% on his advice about Rhododendron - people now spend a fortune on TRYING to eradicate them - the wild Ponticum have a way of preserving themselves.

 

[stone]

Try http://www.albatrees.co.uk/

]

+1 on above
the biggest problem when planting x-mas trees under hardwood canopy is there is no light or not enough light for the X-mass tree to thrive on , so as they grow they create a thin whispy tree as they compete to reach the light or just eventually die off , either way they don't make an X-mas tree worth selling
the other issue is type of ground and type of tree you intend to plant,
if you intend to actually turn them into a cash crop, it's a lot harder than just planting them in the ground
Pines grow in quite a variety of ground and need least work doing to them but they do need plenty of light to grow properly and are not the most liked as an X-mas tree in this country
Norway spruce also can be grown in a variety of ground but need pruning twice a year in reality and most susceptible to bugs such as green aphid and red spider mite
Nordman fir and Frazer Fir are very popular for x-mas trees due to shape and needle retention but need a lot more maintaining especialy in the bug department

They will all need work done on them atleast once a year from around 3 years old after being planted depending on how well they grow, if you want to produce a saleable crop in 4-5 years time
Douglas fir are a bit of a nightmare tree as they need a lot of work on them to get a decent shape and quite often by working on the leader it fecks them up

Personally if you think you hav a canopy/light issue then don't plant X-mas trees thinking they will be sale-able in a few years time , it won't happen as a rule
as for amount of trees, plant them on a 4ft spacing so they hav room to grow evenly and you hav room to spray and work on them properly
rabbits will be a concern from the start and so will aphids and weeds such as thistles and nettles and to be honest if the deer wanted to get into your pen they will anyway
why don't you pop down to your local nursery/garden centre and see what winter plants they hav going that they are flogging off cheap, I mean the ones they are going to dump anyway
you'll be surprised at how many of those survive once planted and for the cost it won't matter if 50% die

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

+1 on above
the biggest problem when planting x-mas trees under hardwood canopy is there is no light or not enough light for the X-mass tree to thrive on , so as they grow they create a thin whispy tree as they compete to reach the light or just eventually die off , either way they don't make an X-mas tree worth selling
the other issue is type of ground and type of tree you intend to plant,
if you intend to actually turn them into a cash crop, it's a lot harder than just planting them in the ground
Pines grow in quite a variety of ground and need least work doing to them but they do need plenty of light to grow properly and are not the most liked as an X-mas tree in this country
Norway spruce also can be grown in a variety of ground but need pruning twice a year in reality and most susceptible to bugs such as green aphid and red spider mite
Nordman fir and Frazer Fir are very popular for x-mas trees due to shape and needle retention but need a lot more maintaining especialy in the bug department

They will all need work done on them atleast once a year from around 3 years old after being planted depending on how well they grow, if you want to produce a saleable crop in 4-5 years time
Douglas fir are a bit of a nightmare tree as they need a lot of work on them to get a decent shape and quite often by working on the leader it fecks them up

Personally if you think you hav a canopy/light issue then don't plant X-mas trees thinking they will be sale-able in a few years time , it won't happen as a rule
as for amount of trees, plant them on a 4ft spacing so they hav room to grow evenly and you hav room to spray and work on them properly
rabbits will be a concern from the start and so will aphids and weeds such as thistles and nettles and to be honest if the deer wanted to get into your pen they will anyway
why don't you pop down to your local nursery/garden centre and see what winter plants they hav going that they are flogging off cheap, I mean the ones they are going to dump anyway
you'll be surprised at how many of those survive once planted and for the cost it won't matter if 50% die

Thats Brilliant advice Stone good on you Im impressed

 

[flyingfisherman]

Thanks guys,

Invaluable information, the idea is just to provide some cover for the pheasants, something which breaks up the wind and offers a bit of shelter. If i were to plant Xmas trees, then it wouldnt be for a cash crop, maybe the odd one for the farmer or personal use but thats it. If theres better shrubs which dont cost the earth then i will go for them.

Thanks again for the advice, i dont think Xmas trees would do very well there..


Cheers,

FFM

 

[zaitsev]

Hi FFM, some good info in this thread. I would hesitate to use nursery 'cull' stock though.
There may be a chance of introducing an unwanted nasty with such stock. The import nursery trade has been pretty bad at policing it's boundaries and as a result we have some unwanted pests and diseases such as Pytopthora ramorum (sudden oak death) and Oak Processionary Moth. These both came in on imported material and most of the infection sites for Phytopthora were near to nurseries. You never know what's lurking so I would opt to use quality stock from a good nursery such as Alba, Maelor etc. The small stock tends only to be pence each so it's worth it for the peace of mind and the reduction in duplicated effort in re-planting failures.

BTW no offence intended Richard, just thought it was worth mentioning.

Regards

Gareth

 

[the verminator]

i reckon as well as some trees on the prevailing wind side you'd want some shurb cover aswell, like snow berries or privit. aswell as providing cover lower down, in the winter the provide berries for the birds to eat so will help to keep them in the area. the trees idealy want to be stagered so as the wind can get thorough them a bit if it is a very exposed are otherwise they will endup blowing over.

 

[stone]

Thats Brilliant advice Stone good on you Im impressed

By eck your easily impressed

I hav not even scratched the surface where X-mas trees are concerned, sort of my specialist subject

 

[stone]

BTW no offence intended Richard, just thought it was worth mentioning.

G
no offence taken
It is well worth mentioning