Potential lead ban?
- Thread starter wildfowler.250
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Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
But i thought expert rifle men were really good at reading the wind, and BC has the same effect as regards wind. A lower BC bullet will move more than a high BC bullet, but provided you know this then you adjust accordingly.
and if it is too windy to reliably hit a living target then you should nt be shooting at it. If it means you have to keep your shots with a certain distance you will just have to live with it, or learn how to adapt.
as for 22 Rimfire, nobody has yet produced a non toxic load (to my knowledge) but if there is need to do so then somebody will. It may be that 22 rimfires become obsolete, in the same way that a 243 will become obsolete as a deer calibre, but that we end up using something a bit different that does work.
no i am not pulling the draw bridge up, but fundamentally the market for game meat is rapidly moving towards a requirement that it is lead free, and we also need as a section of society to be seen as not leaving lots of lead in the wild to poison other animals and birds. And this includes leaving lots of gralloch, or dead foxes full of lead fragments which are then eaten.
if we dont get our own house in order it will all be academic anyway.
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Hi @enfieldspares
Does it cover rifle-shooting and deer-stalking? No use to most on the site if it doesn't.
Kind regards,
Carl
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Yes CPSA (a big surprise to me too) lists these activities as being covered if you click the link. Specifically in the list being "Rifle Shooting (including Stalking)". Maybe give them a call and have a chat to confirm?
But i thought expert rifle men were really good at reading the wind, and BC has the same effect as regards wind. A lower BC bullet will move more than a high BC bullet, but provided you know this then you adjust accordingly.
and if it is too windy to reliably hit a living target then you should nt be shooting at it. If it means you have to keep your shots with a certain distance you will just have to live with it, or learn how to adapt. Try quickly and effectively reading the wind accurately when you are after a tricky fox that has been killing lambs with NV that you pick up on a windy night at 250 or so yards. Still we can just tell the farmers that they need to learn how to adapt.
as for 22 Rimfire, nobody has yet produced a non toxic load (to my knowledge) but if there is need to do so then somebody will. It may be that 22 rimfires become obsolete, in the same way that a 243 will become obsolete as a deer calibre, but that we end up using something a bit different that does work. Again showing ignorance, .22 will not become obsolete! There are already lead free .22 ammunition varieties available but they are high velocity or ultra high velocity! The issue is subsonic ammunition, which probably accounts for more pest animals being shot than all the deer calibres combined, will become unfeasible. Nobody will come up with any alternative as it will not work in 1:16 rim fires and the uk market is just too small. Equally for pest controllers (professional and amateur) air rifles are valuable tools which will become far less effective. As for .243 you’re wrong it won’t become obsolete, only as a deer calibre north of the border due to the 100 gr bullet requirement.
no i am not pulling the draw bridge up, but fundamentally the market for game meat is rapidly moving towards a requirement that it is lead free, and we also need as a section of society to be seen as not leaving lots of lead in the wild to poison other animals and birds. And this includes leaving lots of gralloch, or dead foxes full of lead fragments which are then eaten. it’s an imagined issue! The amount of lead left in tissue is minimal and unlike lead shot in wetlands or by fishermen has not caused an issue to date so why are they pretending it will now. Vermin and foxes do not go into the food chain and food is a byproduct for game shooting, that is those that go into the food chain at all. They would be far better off addressing large commercial shoots with bags running into the hundreds with no outlet.
if we dont get our own house in order it will all be academic anyway.if we don’t have suitable ammunition it will be academic anyway and all these stupid organisations are doing is drawing attention to non issues. If it was such an issues Wild Justice would have made more of an issue with it, they haven’t.
carry on jack, peace is vermin and fox shooters in the sh*t
Ade8mm
Well-Known Member
Clearly lead is an issue, certainly in the public eye. Whether or not it is an ill- conceived issue is not my point here. My point is if the BASC are now expecting people to get "on message" - however valid or otherwise their arguments maybe (sale of Pheasants to the food chain etc) they have left it far too late (by historic ineffective / non-existent representation of their members interests )
They have lost any real support they may once have had and have left it far too late to enjoy much support on this issue IMHO
They have lost any real support they may once have had and have left it far too late to enjoy much support on this issue IMHO
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In all honesty, I think the game shooting fraternity should be looking at a voluntary ban on the release and subsequent shooting of all game birds within the next five years. Despite the evidence that game meat is sustainable and the allied activities benefit many other species, the general public is largely against the wholesale release of thousands of reared, non-native birds into the environment every year simply to be shot for sport. We don't need them for food and chickens are much more cost-effective to raise anyway.
Whereas pigeon, rabbit and crow shooting can still hold the moral high ground, providing a valuable and free service to the farming community and the country as a whole (think of the cost of publicly funded pest species control), the game shooting industries can make no such claims. The tide of public opinion is marching inexorably onwards toward this outcome and, despite best efforts, it is clear that game shooting has been painted into a corner of sustainability and credibility.
It is with this in mind that I propose that all organisations get behind my suggested capitulation, despite any evidence to the contrary, and adopt this wholesale, voluntary, moratorium on game shooting as soon as possible. It is clear that this is the logical next step. We can kiss goodbye to the controversial muirburn policies, the tarring by association by unscrupulous gamekeepers and the accusations of raptor persecution. This would leave the rest of us in a much better place, those that simply shoot species such as deer, fox, rabbit, pigeon and crow for pest or species control without the fear of having the mud thrown at us for our legal, necessary activities, or the clay and target shooting communities whose activities take place in controlled and defined areas that do not affect SSSI's or any other sensitive area.
Whose with me? BASC? CA? NGO? Anybody?
Whereas pigeon, rabbit and crow shooting can still hold the moral high ground, providing a valuable and free service to the farming community and the country as a whole (think of the cost of publicly funded pest species control), the game shooting industries can make no such claims. The tide of public opinion is marching inexorably onwards toward this outcome and, despite best efforts, it is clear that game shooting has been painted into a corner of sustainability and credibility.
It is with this in mind that I propose that all organisations get behind my suggested capitulation, despite any evidence to the contrary, and adopt this wholesale, voluntary, moratorium on game shooting as soon as possible. It is clear that this is the logical next step. We can kiss goodbye to the controversial muirburn policies, the tarring by association by unscrupulous gamekeepers and the accusations of raptor persecution. This would leave the rest of us in a much better place, those that simply shoot species such as deer, fox, rabbit, pigeon and crow for pest or species control without the fear of having the mud thrown at us for our legal, necessary activities, or the clay and target shooting communities whose activities take place in controlled and defined areas that do not affect SSSI's or any other sensitive area.
Whose with me? BASC? CA? NGO? Anybody?
I’ll do a straw poll at work today, ‘are lead lead shot and projectiles shot over land an issue- yes or no?’
I guarantee that most won’t even know what I’m talking about let alone have an opinion. It’s an imagined issue for most
Results are in, the unanimous consensus was 'why is that a problem?'
Absolutely this!!
It is game shooting that generally anyone who is against shooting want to go after, that and trophy hunting! Lead is way, way down on the agenda to the extent that for 999 out of 1000 people won't have an opinion - most won't know lead is used in the first place.
Ade8mm
Well-Known Member
"Most people" will I suspect be well informed in due course thanks to the likes of wild justice, along with basc GCWT and all the others
CarlW
Well-Known Member
Yes CPSA (a big surprise to me too) lists these activities as being covered if you click the link. Specifically in the list being "Rifle Shooting (including Stalking)". Maybe give them a call and have a chat to confirm?
I have just spoken on the telephone to the CPSA. They provide pretty much the same insurance cover as all the other organisations, including stalking, foxing, etc.
I also asked them whether they intend to join forces with the other organisations at any point on this issue. They replied: "Absolutely not; however, we understand why they have taken that position."
I was very impressed with the lady who answered the 'phone. Incredibly helpful and professional.
Kind regards,
Carl
"Most people" will I suspect be well informed in due course thanks to the likes of wild justice, along with basc GCWT and all the others
Thankfully "most people" pay little attention to the posturing of the trio of idiots. The problem is that the few who do pay attention tend to coincide with being civil servants.
Orion
Well-Known Member
All well and good for the time being. But will they change their tune when Waitrose stop selling clay pigeon taken with lead shot?
Odders
Well-Known Member
Nope. The antis will just move on to their next target.
Making concessions only serves to encourage them, as they see it as a win.
No compromises
No "voluntary" actions
No pandering to ill-informed "public opinion" (AKA a small, very shouty minority).
I was kinda trying to expose the ridiculousness of the position made in the original argument.
that’s me sold
Orion
Well-Known Member
I’ll have a look at that before SACS renewal around May time. I’ll stay with the CA for the time being as they’re quite proactive on other rural issues that directly affect me.
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