Setting up to supply small quantities of Venison to friends and family

[25 Sharps]

First - Mod's feel free to move wasn't sure the best place.

We are about to build an out building under permitted development, I sometimes give a little away but word is spreading and more and more friends and family are asking and offering to pay. I son't intend to charge a lot but enough to cover some outgoings (ammunition, fuel, insurance) would be nice.

What is the minimum I will need to satisfy the EHO?

I have an area of 3.5 x 3.5 metres for a larder / butchery area, envisage 2 upright fridges (one for in the skin one for skinned) is this suffiecient or does the butchery area itself need to be chilled, I guess I'd need a 3rd fridge for packaged meat. Does the skinning area need to be separate (I guess it does).

Just after a bit of guidance from those who have set up in similar circumstances.


Also how, if at all do people deal with it from a tax point of view, do you declare as income? Even if you are operating at a loss do you record costs to prove this?

 

[Jon P]

Hi, hopefully this link should work, may be of help to you, I found it for a friend a few days ago.

Wild game guidance

Hygiene regulations for supplying game for human consumption.

www.food.gov.uk

 

[VSS]

Involve your local EHO from the very beginning. You will find them very helpful.

 

[splash]

I imagine it’s going to be expensive, time consuming, lots of paperwork and running at a loss for a few years

 

[25 Sharps]

I imagine it’s going to be expensive, time consuming, lots of paperwork and running at a loss for a few years

The aim isn’t to make money, the building is being built so it’s just what I need internally

 

[The Singing Stalker]

I imagine it’s going to be expensive, time consuming, lots of paperwork and running at a loss for a few years

Don’t see why? I’m going through this myself at them moment. Separate post somewhere on here.

 

[Zephyrjim]

There was a discussion about regulations surrounding this at a BDS evening I attended with the weasex branch. If I remember correctly the rules are much much simpler if you are supplying the the end consumer than if supplying to another party who will then sell it on. I'll have a look and see if I still have the handout from the night

 

[The Singing Stalker]

There was a discussion about regulations surrounding this at a BDS evening I attended with the weasex branch. If I remember correctly the rules are much much simpler if you are supplying the the end consumer than if supplying to another party who will then sell it on. I'll have a look and see if I still have the handout from the night

That is correct. You need to be supplying at least 80% of your meat to the end customer, ie the people who will eat the food and not a shop or pub. They come under the 20%.
I’m not super clever, i just had that conversation today with the EH officer.

 

[Hereford]

A good quality non-slip vinyl floor with coved skirting laid properly, after letting the screed dry out completely. A liquid dpm applied prior to the flooring going down is a must for it’s longevity, too. Complement the flooring with a quality gulley drain (one which you can clean the trap) and Whiterock the walls - your hygiene worries in the future will be far less with this as a starting point, and your EH officer will love it. Good luck with your venture

 

[willie_gunn]

I know people who have set up as a venison food business from their domestic kitchen, so hardly onerous or necessarily expensive.

I am going through the process at the moment and am fortunate in that I have a larder at the end of the garden. It’s not chilled as a room, but I have a commercial chiller in there, together with running water, drainage, stainless prep areas, an ibeam to suspend the carcass, etc.

I had a chat with the local EHO who was very helpful, sending through a lot of useful info. The only complicating factor I’ve found has been the requirement, as a Food Business, to dispose of any animal by-products. I was told that it is not allowable to mix them with regular household waste any more.

The approval as a food business was immediate, with an inspection likely in September (post-Covid).

I am very grateful to members here who have shared their experiences of the process, and in particular to geoffw for kindly sending me his template for the HACCP report.

 

[splash]

A good quality non-slip vinyl floor with coved skirting laid properly, after letting the screed dry out completely. A liquid dpm applied prior to the flooring going down is a must for it’s longevity, too. Complement the flooring with a quality gulley drain (one which you can clean the trap) and Whiterock the walls - your hygiene worries in the future will be far less with this as a starting point, and your EH officer will love it. Good luck with your venture

That’s the lines I was thinking, then you need a separate area to skin from butchery, commercial waste disposal in the las 10 years our waste pickup cost has increased from £6.90 a week to £27 a week for the same size bin
Then if you factor in accountancy charges, Drives, freezers vacuum packer, plastics,PPE , electricity ,water, insurance and assorted bills.
Starts to add up.

Don’t get me wrong I wish you all the luck in the world ! Without new businesses we would struggle.
I’m trying to get you to cost everything before you take the plunge

 

[devon deer stalker]

I know people who have set up as a venison food business from their domestic kitchen, so hardly onerous or necessarily expensive.

Quite so, before I lifted a finger I contacted my local EHO, I told him my plans, he made suggestions, I carried out my plans, he returned, all good.
I have a chiller in a shed, I carry the carcass into the garage for skinning, I then butcher in my kitchen.
Some shooting organisations provide insurance for quantities up to £5k I believe.

As @25 Sharps asked I will advise, when you sell venison, whether that be to a private individual or a game dealer you open yourself up to Mr HMRC, so all I did was add it onto my self employment tax return, keep everything on record, down to the last mile on every deer stalking outing, ammo, etc
Better that than be investigated by HMRC, and after this crisis I can see them looking at every avenue to claw back some money.

Good luck with your new venture

Cheers

Richard

 

[Essex stalker]

I posted this picture the other day, I’m building one similar to you and for the same reasons, I’m going to use quarry tile floor
I will post some more pictures when complete

 

[willie_gunn]

That’s the lines I was thinking, then you need a separate area to skin from butchery, commercial waste disposal in the las 10 years our waste pickup cost has increased from £6.90 a week to £27 a week for the same size bin
Then if you factor in accountancy charges, Drives, freezers vacuum packer, plastics,PPE , electricity ,water, insurance and assorted bills.
Starts to add up.

Don’t get me wrong I wish you all the luck in the world ! Without new businesses we would struggle.
I’m trying to get you to cost everything before you take the plunge

You are absolutely right to suggest doing that, as costs can certainly mount up. I would think that’s particularly the case if your normal MO is to drop all carcasses off at the local dealer.

In my case, however, having been stalking for 25 years I had built up most of the necessary equipment, simply because I process 99% of the deer I shoot already. So I have the freezer, vacuum packer (3 actually....don’t ask), PPE, knives, scales and so on.

Getting the larder finally knitted out was my job for the first couple of weeks of lockdown, including sourcing another prep table. Stuff I’ve been meaning to do for years but just never got round to.

For anyone considering doing the same I would highly recommend speaking with your local EHO. I expected to encounter the archetypal jobsworth officialdom, but in reality I cannot praise them enough - super helpful, understanding, great follow-up, and incredibly efficient. I lodged my application on the Government website and the very next day had the phone call from my local EHO. I expressed surprise to receive a call during lockdown, but she assured me that they were processing applications as normal. The only delay is in terms of the inspection. Top marks all round.

 

[norma 308]

Great to see stalkers getting off their high seats and combating the game dealers deprivation of the stalker hats off to you cut out the middle man

 

[Heym SR20]

The biggest thing that kills most business is lots of money invested in expensive kit, especially expensive kit that is funded using other peoples money. If it is only small quantities I would keep it below the radar. If no money is changing hands and you are not running it as a business then the so much the better as you probably don't need to register as a Food Business. And note there are different regulations North and South of the Scottish Border. An upright fridge or two, somewhere to skin and clean / wash down (if required - they will not always be perfect) and a decent table on which you can butcher is all you need really. A lot of the initial prep and mess can be done in the field. Have water in the truck along with a kettle. Slightly messy carcass - hang it up, wash it down, put kettle on and have a brew whilst it's drying off, load up, go home.

If you can start supplying the game to say local restaurants in fur or feather, then again you initial costs will be limited. No reason why you shouldn't then help the chef do the initial preparation of the carcass and make use of their commercial waste bins. I would have a good read of the regulations - is there anything to say that you can't split a carcass keeping it still in skin - keep the hindquarters together, splitting it away at the top of the girdle, then the saddle and the forequarter / shoulders - and supply it this way. Lot easier especially on a bigger carcass.

A butchered Roe Buck is worth about £150 perhaps £200 - so if you are spending say £5,000 on setup and building a larder etc. then you are going to have to put quite a few animals through it to justify it.

 

[BigPat]

I decided to go the same way last year and converted my existing workshop by raising a section of roof, recladding and lining it in OSB (big thanks to Dave ‘Colonel’ who did that for me) and then I fitted it out inside. As it’s a wooden structure I needed to come up with a drainage system so I have a channel drain at the front so you just wash everything forward and out the doors so it drains into the gully. Walls and ceiling are all covered in the hygiene plastic panels and the flooring is a specialist non-slip but easy clean vinyl and skirting is a double sealed flexible product.

The thing that caught me out was the need for 2 sinks (one for washing hands and the other for utensils etc), but got it sorted.

 

[oxfordshirestalker]

View attachment 160868I decided to go the same way last year and converted my existing workshop by raising a section of roof, recladding and lining it in OSB (big thanks to Dave ‘Colonel’ who did that for me) and then I fitted it out inside. As it’s a wooden structure I needed to come up with a drainage system so I have a channel drain at the front so you just wash everything forward and out the doors so it drains into the gully. Walls and ceiling are all covered in the hygiene plastic panels and the flooring is a specialist non-slip but easy clean vinyl and skirting is a double sealed flexible product.

The thing that caught me out was the need for 2 sinks (one for washing hands and the other for utensils etc), but got it sorted.

This looks brilliant - what are the overall dimensions? Do you have a separate area for skinning?

 

[Woodsmoke]

converted my existing workshop by raising a section of roof, recladding and lining it in OSB (big thanks to Dave ‘Colonel’ who did that for me) and then I fitted it out inside.

That's a beauty of a setup! I'm in the middle of converting an outbuilding too. No water supply, but I do have an existing drain so that makes life a tiny bit easier

 

[Erik Hamburger]

Also how, if at all do people deal with it from a tax point of view, do you declare as income? Even if you are operating at a loss do you record costs to prove this?

There is plenty of info on this Forum re. selling a bit of venison direct, from home. Just a few comments:

1. You do not need professional grade food rooms, just a game larder in the garage or shed, and the kitchen table will do, providing you work to the food hygiene guidelines.
2. Yes a HACCP document is useful, you've already had a template. Customise it to your set of circumstances and send it by Recorded Delivery to your local EH Dept asking them for comments/suggestions by (give a date, say 2-3 weeks ahead) and tell them that if you don't hear from them by (that date) you will assume all is OK and proceed.
3. I recommend some Food Safety training to a higher standard than the very limited coverage in the DSC1 course, which in my view isn't sufficient to fully appreciate the issues when processing and dealing with fresh meat.
5. We keep a very simple spreadsheet of sales and costs of venison, that is added to the sales of two other home based businesses (B&B and Beekeeping/Honey) and profits/losses/ declared in our annual Tax Returns. The costs of shooting (diesel, kit, amo, etc.) is likely to be higher than the sales, so you end up declaring a loss, which will be offset against your other income, and therefore reduce your final tax bill. It is all perfectly legal and standard accounting practise.