Setting up to supply small quantities of Venison to friends and family

[willie_gunn]

There is plenty of info on this Forum re. selling a bit of venison direct, from home. Just a few comments:

1. You do not need professional grade food rooms, just a game larder in the garage or shed, and the kitchen table will do, providing you work to the food hygiene guidelines.
2. Yes a HACCP document is useful, you've already had a template. Customise it to your set of circumstances and send it by Recorded Delivery to your local EH Dept asking them for comments/suggestions by (give a date, say 2-3 weeks ahead) and tell them that if you don't hear from them by (that date) you will assume all is OK and proceed.
3. I recommend some Food Safety training to a higher standard than the very limited coverage in the DSC1 course, which in my view isn't sufficient to fully appreciate the issues when processing and dealing with fresh meat.
5. We keep a very simple spreadsheet of sales and costs of venison, that is added to the sales of two other home based businesses (B&B and Beekeeping/Honey) and profits/losses/ declared in our annual Tax Returns. The costs of shooting (diesel, kit, amo, etc.) is likely to be higher than the sales, so you end up declaring a loss, which will be offset against your other income, and therefore reduce your final tax bill. It is all perfectly legal and standard accounting practise.

Erik

Coincidentally my wife mentioned yesterday that, having registered as a food business, I should consider taking a food hygiene course.

Given your comments above, is there a particular course you would recommend?

 

[25 Sharps]

View attachment 160868I decided to go the same way last year and converted my existing workshop by raising a section of roof, recladding and lining it in OSB (big thanks to Dave ‘Colonel’ who did that for me) and then I fitted it out inside. As it’s a wooden structure I needed to come up with a drainage system so I have a channel drain at the front so you just wash everything forward and out the doors so it drains into the gully. Walls and ceiling are all covered in the hygiene plastic panels and the flooring is a specialist non-slip but easy clean vinyl and skirting is a double sealed flexible product.

The thing that caught me out was the need for 2 sinks (one for washing hands and the other for utensils etc), but got it sorted.

This is very much what I had in mind, I can plan the drainage and plumbing to suit.

DO you skin and prep in this area?

 

[25 Sharps]

A good quality non-slip vinyl floor with coved skirting laid properly, after letting the screed dry out completely. A liquid dpm applied prior to the flooring going down is a must for it’s longevity, too. Complement the flooring with a quality gulley drain (one which you can clean the trap) and Whiterock the walls - your hygiene worries in the future will be far less with this as a starting point, and your EH officer will love it. Good luck with your venture

Thanks - will be a wade floor gulley or similar so commercial kitchen standard, in the trade so get good deals on a lot of kit......

 

[25 Sharps]

Quite so, before I lifted a finger I contacted my local EHO, I told him my plans, he made suggestions, I carried out my plans, he returned, all good.
I have a chiller in a shed, I carry the carcass into the garage for skinning, I then butcher in my kitchen.
Some shooting organisations provide insurance for quantities up to £5k I believe.

As @25 Sharps asked I will advise, when you sell venison, whether that be to a private individual or a game dealer you open yourself up to Mr HMRC, so all I did was add it onto my self employment tax return, keep everything on record, down to the last mile on every deer stalking outing, ammo, etc
Better that than be investigated by HMRC, and after this crisis I can see them looking at every avenue to claw back some money.

Good luck with your new venture

Cheers

Richard

Thanks, already do a tax return so would just add it to that I guess; its 6 months off probably as just going through the planning at the moment.

 

[25 Sharps]

The biggest thing that kills most business is lots of money invested in expensive kit, especially expensive kit that is funded using other peoples money. If it is only small quantities I would keep it below the radar. If no money is changing hands and you are not running it as a business then the so much the better as you probably don't need to register as a Food Business. And note there are different regulations North and South of the Scottish Border. An upright fridge or two, somewhere to skin and clean / wash down (if required - they will not always be perfect) and a decent table on which you can butcher is all you need really. A lot of the initial prep and mess can be done in the field. Have water in the truck along with a kettle. Slightly messy carcass - hang it up, wash it down, put kettle on and have a brew whilst it's drying off, load up, go home.

If you can start supplying the game to say local restaurants in fur or feather, then again you initial costs will be limited. No reason why you shouldn't then help the chef do the initial preparation of the carcass and make use of their commercial waste bins. I would have a good read of the regulations - is there anything to say that you can't split a carcass keeping it still in skin - keep the hindquarters together, splitting it away at the top of the girdle, then the saddle and the forequarter / shoulders - and supply it this way. Lot easier especially on a bigger carcass.

A butchered Roe Buck is worth about £150 perhaps £200 - so if you are spending say £5,000 on setup and building a larder etc. then you are going to have to put quite a few animals through it to justify it.

All valid points, this would not be a business I simply do not shoot enough, there will be investment but whether I start selling to others of not the building is being built, I have always planned to have a processing facility in the new building so a certain amount will be spent anyway /it just knowing what I need to 'top up' to make it acceptable to the environmental health. As i say this won't be a money making venture but if i can get set up and recover some of my costs as well as getting decent meat out there to those that want it I'll be happy.

 

[25 Sharps]

There is plenty of info on this Forum re. selling a bit of venison direct, from home. Just a few comments:

1. You do not need professional grade food rooms, just a game larder in the garage or shed, and the kitchen table will do, providing you work to the food hygiene guidelines.
2. Yes a HACCP document is useful, you've already had a template. Customise it to your set of circumstances and send it by Recorded Delivery to your local EH Dept asking them for comments/suggestions by (give a date, say 2-3 weeks ahead) and tell them that if you don't hear from them by (that date) you will assume all is OK and proceed.
3. I recommend some Food Safety training to a higher standard than the very limited coverage in the DSC1 course, which in my view isn't sufficient to fully appreciate the issues when processing and dealing with fresh meat.
5. We keep a very simple spreadsheet of sales and costs of venison, that is added to the sales of two other home based businesses (B&B and Beekeeping/Honey) and profits/losses/ declared in our annual Tax Returns. The costs of shooting (diesel, kit, amo, etc.) is likely to be higher than the sales, so you end up declaring a loss, which will be offset against your other income, and therefore reduce your final tax bill. It is all perfectly legal and standard accounting practise.

Having just had my P60 I like the sound of this reducing my tax bill!! I suppose in the first year the cost of setting up (building excluded) could be put down as a loss, I have a works vehicle with personal fuel benefit so no fuel costs but ammunition, commercial waste, water and electricity could all be offset.

 

[willie_gunn]

All valid points, this would not be a business I simply do not shoot enough, there will be investment but whether I start selling to others of not the building is being built, I have always planned to have a processing facility in the new building so a certain amount will be spent anyway /it just knowing what I need to 'top up' to make it acceptable to the environmental health. As i say this won't be a money making venture but if i can get set up and recover some of my costs as well as getting decent meat out there to those that want it I'll be happy.

It sounds like you are going through the same process I did at the start of lockdown.

Wiltshire Council looks to have some pretty comprehensive information on their website (New food business - Wiltshire Council), but when you start the registration process then, if Wiltshire is like South Oxfordshire and VWH District Council, the local EHO will give you a call. They sent me some documenation - basically the Wild Game Guide, see Wild game guidance - and asked me to call back if I had any further questions or requirements.

 

[Heym SR20]

One thing I would making a new kitchen or workroom, backroom, utility room or whatever, is to lay a concrete floor that slopes down to a drain. So that regardless what it is used for it easily cleaned. Friends did this in a kitchen. They had a complete non-event when a hose burst on a washing machine that they had put on and gone off to work. They just had a well washed floor.

 

[Uncle f]

I’ve done just this. You should register as a food business with the local authority. This is free and allows you to supply in fur carcasses to AGHE. Then if you wish to supply direct to the end user you will need to be inspected by the eho and complete a HACCP plan and detailed risk and method statements. You will need an adequate insurance policy which will cover you in the event of any person(s) accusing you or your products of making them ill. The eho who visits you will inform the valuations dept that you are a business and you will possibly come under the business rates scheme so be warned. Then depending on how you intend to sell it you will need calibrated scales if selling by weight which are calibrated under the Uk weights and measures act (these will need to be calibrated every 12 months) you will be asked to provide evidence and proof of this. You will need a commercial waste bin for food waste collection with an approved contractor. Your eho will want to see proof of the contract Mine is a 240 litre bin and costs £23 per collection. Once a week in winter season

You understand the minute you start charging (even if it’s pence) you are then acting commercially and come under different rules and regulations. Do not go down the road of purchasing carcasses from others to process and sell as you will then bypass the local environmental health department and you will then be governed by the FSA (Foods standards authority) who will send a vet routinely (at your cost) to inspect carcasses on your property to see if there Ok etc. I looked into doing this and it was major agg as there are minimum and maximum temperatures your facility must be whereas if you are just processing your own shot animals and not buying from others and processing to end consumers the rules are slightly easier for you.

My room with chillers racks tables floor white rock water plumber in sinks (you need two one for hand washing and one for tools utensils etc) you need hot running water. Cost me About £4.5k but I did employ a plumber and flooring contractor. The scales I use cost over a grand (i wasn’t expecting that)
You will Need to record fridge and freezer temps at least once sometimes twice per day. My insurance premium is about £700 a year for upto £65k if income from this particular part of the business.

Please don’t let this put you off as I feel it’s certainly worth pursuing this avenue if you get through a fair few animals and certainly will provide a reasonable income. However to balance out the expense against the projected income you will need to have in excess of approx £12-15k of sales per annum to make this a viable exercise. Or you could well be minted then in which case it matters not.
I don’t mean to sound negative but I’m just opening your eyes to the various pitfalls of doing this. If it was so easy then everyone would be doing it.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not a massive AGHE fan as I do feel they take advantage a lot of the times BUT have a think and realise the regulations they have to adhere to and the costs involved with opening this type of business

 

[Uncle f]

Having just had my P60 I like the sound of this reducing my tax bill!! I suppose in the first year the cost of setting up (building excluded) could be put down as a loss, I have a works vehicle with personal fuel benefit so no fuel costs but ammunition, commercial waste, water and electricity could all be offset.

Having just read the works vehicle bit mate will your employers like the fact your using there vehicle for your commercial benefit? Also if you use your own vehicle mate you will need a an insurance policy that states social domestic and pleasure and something along the lines of in the use of the policy holders business. Your will then be charged a premium for this as a commercial policy holder. The chances of getting caught are very slim but be aware never the less. Also you will need to think about keeping the product(s) chilled during transportation if you are to deliver. I find a large 12v cool box ideal for this. You will also need to record this temp on your haccp plan and daily records

 

[25 Sharps]

Having just read the works vehicle bit mate will your employers like the fact your using there vehicle for your commercial benefit? Also if you use your own vehicle mate you will need a an insurance policy that states social domestic and pleasure and something along the lines of in the use of the policy holders business. Your will then be charged a premium for this as a commercial policy holder. The chances of getting caught are very slim but be aware never the less. Also you will need to think about keeping the product(s) chilled during transportation if you are to deliver. I find a large 12v cool box ideal for this. You will also need to record this temp on your haccp plan and daily records

Yeah work will be fine with it, I’m reasonably high up in the company

 

[slider]

I imagine it’s going to be expensive, time consuming, lots of paperwork and running at a loss for a few years

Not at all. I have a 2nd hand larder fridge as a chiller, a length of worktop that sits across the washing machine and timber drivers, a fold up plastic table, a few knives, a mincer and a supply of food save sanitiser. Carcass transport is un a tray in my SUV. I was inspect by the Environmental Health officer and he was happy to registered me as a Food Business.

 

[slider]

Having just read the works vehicle bit mate will your employers like the fact your using there vehicle for your commercial benefit? Also if you use your own vehicle mate you will need a an insurance policy that states social domestic and pleasure and something along the lines of in the use of the policy holders business. Your will then be charged a premium for this as a commercial policy holder. The chances of getting caught are very slim but be aware never the less. Also you will need to think about keeping the product(s) chilled during transportation if you are to deliver. I find a large 12v cool box ideal for this. You will also need to record this temp on your haccp plan and daily records

Adding " the policy holders business" will only raise the premium by a couple of £, unless you use a total shark of an insurance company.

And if you are a recreational stalker that only sells a few deer or bits and pieces it will hardly be classed as a business

 

[Uncle f]

Business is business if you make any commercial gain what so ever they will want a piece of it you can be sure of that. Even more so now we eventually ease lockdown restrictions this country and government will be skint so they will look to make easy money from fines and non compliance notices.
If your not insured and you need to make a claim for whatever reason and the insurance company find out your using the vehicle for more than social domestic and pleasure do you really think they will cough up and pay the claim???
You would also be breaking the law by driving with no insurance so you have the risk of the vehicle being seized and a prosecution. That will look good to the firearms department don’t you think?
To be honest I’m not bothered what people do I’m just trying to give some advice of stuff I went thorough a good few months back.

 

[jimo]

Disposing of the animal waste shouldn’t be too difficult or expensive. We use a firm for our fallen stock that also does butchers waste. It all goes for rendering. They supply a red wheelie bin and charge £20 to empty it regardless of what’s in it and are in our area twice a week. A bit of googling may find someone similar in your area.