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BDS Webinar Series: UK Venison Market and its Future
- Thread starter jcampbellsmith
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Freeforester
Well-Known Member
This^^ - you'll not learn much in an echo chamber. Personal opinion, no offence intended
This is the BDS. Not BASC. Totally different. Not an echo chamber, in my opinion. Solid and credible. Worthy of listening to, even support.
I know, was taught and have stalked with, many times, over several years, with at least one of the participants, whom I respect very much, and hope to watch it next week.
I don't know anything about the other participants, but hope that they have something useful to communicate.
However it seems to be tricky for some other organisations to manage a livestream if this is their first try. Practice makes perfect.
I do hope it goes well and am looking forward to this.
BDS is an entirely different thing to Basc. Im a member, I like being a member. My point wasnt anything to do with the BDS element. More that this industry, for that is what it is, has a small base of people making money at it, moving between organisations or that a few individuals seem to have significant influence over what becomes best practice...
Hopefully available on YouTube later
It looks like a good session and I’ll make a note to join.
The “same names” feature because so few people are willing to volunteer themselves for something like this. Consequently those that do put themselves forward should be applauded, both literally and metaphorically.
Most people find it far easier to sit on their backsides and offer an opinion than get off their backsides and offer to help. That's why the old saying "those that complain the loudest accomplish the least" still holds true.
Social media has just worsened the problem.
In the old days you'd have the pub bore or club curmudgeon who would sit there moaning at you about all the reasons why things were wrong and offering sage advice as to how things could be done better. They never did anything to effect change, mind, but at least their audience was limited and you could walk away and ignore them.
These days these same type of people are far happier with the anonymity offered by somewhat obscure websites where they can happily pontificate all day long about how things should be done politically, organisationally, commercially, scientifically and financially to improve the lot of their particular communities. What makes it worse is that that they now have the ability to attract the other pub bores and so can moan away together. They are never happier than when having their collective whinge-fest.
Ask them to do something practical, however, and you'll still likely be crushed in the stampede for the door!
The “same names” feature because so few people are willing to volunteer themselves for something like this. Consequently those that do put themselves forward should be applauded, both literally and metaphorically.
Most people find it far easier to sit on their backsides and offer an opinion than get off their backsides and offer to help. That's why the old saying "those that complain the loudest accomplish the least" still holds true.
Social media has just worsened the problem.
In the old days you'd have the pub bore or club curmudgeon who would sit there moaning at you about all the reasons why things were wrong and offering sage advice as to how things could be done better. They never did anything to effect change, mind, but at least their audience was limited and you could walk away and ignore them.
These days these same type of people are far happier with the anonymity offered by somewhat obscure websites where they can happily pontificate all day long about how things should be done politically, organisationally, commercially, scientifically and financially to improve the lot of their particular communities. What makes it worse is that that they now have the ability to attract the other pub bores and so can moan away together. They are never happier than when having their collective whinge-fest.
Ask them to do something practical, however, and you'll still likely be crushed in the stampede for the door!
Alastair Boston FC
Active Member
Well said I applaud you.All of the Organisations involved are working collectively together to try and address the current venison situation.I encourage anyone involved with deer management to partake as we are all in this current situation together.
You have a point Willie but mine is that it isnt going to be the average stalker ‘stepping up’ for things like this. Most stalkers have non-deer related jobs and other commitments which pay for stalking. The chaps here, and its always chaps, make a (proportion of a) living in the deer industry and I do not necessarily think that what is good for stalking/deer welfare is always compatible with commercial interests.
Perhaps (densities depending) a lower venison price isnt such a bad thing? Will it attract more people to try it, from the UK, not imported..?
However ill wait to view the discussion from BDS.
Perhaps (densities depending) a lower venison price isnt such a bad thing? Will it attract more people to try it, from the UK, not imported..?
However ill wait to view the discussion from BDS.
I actually think you've made a great point as to why getting an "average recreational stalker" onto a panel like this would make a lot of sense, since they bring a different perspective on matters to those already well embedded in the industry. Controlling deer in the UK relies to a great extent on the recreational stalker, so their voice deserves to be heard?
However that will only happen when those individuals become known to the organisers, and that's where the challenge lies. Organisations like BDS (and BASC, CA and others) rely on their regional branches. My personal experience is that when local events are put on these same organisations try hard to involve their members, and many BDS branches are indeed run by average stalkers. But even at local level it often comes back to the same people, as they are the ones willing to step up and get involved. What stalking needs is more people willing to get involved at a local level, as that will lead to better representation and involvement at a national level. Otherwise we only have ourselves to blame when we see "the same old faces" time after time.
One minor point; whilst I agree that deer stalking is a heavily male-dominated pastime, I have heard both Dorothy Ireland and Jan Andrews speak at events - and speak very well too. There are also others becoming better known, which can only be a good thing. So it's not quite "always chaps"
However that will only happen when those individuals become known to the organisers, and that's where the challenge lies. Organisations like BDS (and BASC, CA and others) rely on their regional branches. My personal experience is that when local events are put on these same organisations try hard to involve their members, and many BDS branches are indeed run by average stalkers. But even at local level it often comes back to the same people, as they are the ones willing to step up and get involved. What stalking needs is more people willing to get involved at a local level, as that will lead to better representation and involvement at a national level. Otherwise we only have ourselves to blame when we see "the same old faces" time after time.
One minor point; whilst I agree that deer stalking is a heavily male-dominated pastime, I have heard both Dorothy Ireland and Jan Andrews speak at events - and speak very well too. There are also others becoming better known, which can only be a good thing. So it's not quite "always chaps"
Ronin
Distinguished Member
I think there’s a difference between the recreational stalker who has no target cull and takes the odd deer for the pot at home, to the recreational stalker who has agreed cull plan and had to enter carcasses to the food chain (game dealer ) as they kill so many that negates home processing and division yo family and friends
And another step to the semi professional or professional stalker / culler who has targets to meet on large areas and must use AGH therefore at the mercy of current pricing trends
Observation not criticism
And another step to the semi professional or professional stalker / culler who has targets to meet on large areas and must use AGH therefore at the mercy of current pricing trends
Observation not criticism
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It’s a perfectly valid observation.
If I look at my own circumstances, originally I was very much at the recreational end of stalking, going out on paid stalks every couple of months.
Then I got more serious about it, and was stalking perhaps every month.
Then I did my DSC2, and started going out on my own and contributing to the overall cull.
After that it was guiding, to now, where I’m helping to decide the cull numbers, have a responsibility to see those targets met, and have registered as a food business in an attempt to help shift the amount of venison that is harvested.
Even so, I am still just a recreational stalker. I may be at quite a different point on the spectrum than I was 20 years ago, but there are people out there who would say I am really just playing at it! And to be honest I am - it is not my full-time job and my livelihood doesn’t depend on it.
However we all have our part to play, whether in terms of managing the UK deer population or the vagaries of the venison market. All those voices should be part of the debate.
If I look at my own circumstances, originally I was very much at the recreational end of stalking, going out on paid stalks every couple of months.
Then I got more serious about it, and was stalking perhaps every month.
Then I did my DSC2, and started going out on my own and contributing to the overall cull.
After that it was guiding, to now, where I’m helping to decide the cull numbers, have a responsibility to see those targets met, and have registered as a food business in an attempt to help shift the amount of venison that is harvested.
Even so, I am still just a recreational stalker. I may be at quite a different point on the spectrum than I was 20 years ago, but there are people out there who would say I am really just playing at it! And to be honest I am - it is not my full-time job and my livelihood doesn’t depend on it.
However we all have our part to play, whether in terms of managing the UK deer population or the vagaries of the venison market. All those voices should be part of the debate.
Alastair Boston FC
Active Member
Please folks if you can spare sometime tonight and take part in the webinar,as it’s in everybody interests that we all pull together, everybody’s views and opinions count.
BDS is a good organisation and is not a stalking club but rather an organisation for the welfare of deer and their management.(my opinion)
I left them years ago following a prolonged difference of opinion with one of their former paragons of virtue and another on this panel. Having said that I also took out on a level 2 stalk another on the panel. I work with another on there and we (I think) understand each other and what is necessary.
The others I know not.
Hopefully it will be a good debate but I can't see venison prices going up, after all they have been the same for 20+ years.
I left them years ago following a prolonged difference of opinion with one of their former paragons of virtue and another on this panel. Having said that I also took out on a level 2 stalk another on the panel. I work with another on there and we (I think) understand each other and what is necessary.
The others I know not.
Hopefully it will be a good debate but I can't see venison prices going up, after all they have been the same for 20+ years.
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