Which one? 6.5 PRC or 270 WIN

[Selous]

The most important thing for you to do here @Ackers-303, is to understand that you must filter out all the responses from guys that never have, and never will, shoot deer at 500-600m. You need advice specifically from blokes that do shoot like this regularly and have done for a good while. The forum is replete with armchair experts not qualified by experience, but by opinion formed entirely subjectively.

The 6.5 PRC is superior to the .270 Win for distance hunting in one critically important way - it was specifically designed for it, using hundreds of years of combined experience of clever Hornady engineers. The numbers alone do not make the distinction as clear you might think - at 500m, the .270 Win doesn’t lag that far behind assuming you are using a bullet like the 145gr ELD-X in Hornady Precision Hunter, and you don’t have a short barrel.

Where the 6.5 PRC has a significant advantage is internal ballistics. Very clever people know what happens inside a cartridge at the moment of ignition, but suffice to say cartridge design has come a long, long way since 1925. So the 6.5 PRC has all the precision and accuracy gains developed over the course of the last couple of decades, as benchrest design philosophies like 30° shoulder angles have made their way into broader use, and in particular hunting rounds. As it takes off, which it will, more 6.5 hunting bullets will hit the market and more factory ammunition offerings will have ballistically superior bullets. The 6.5 PRC twist of 1:8” is much more useable and flexible, whereas the 1:10” twist .270 Win is maxxed out with the 145gr ELD-X and can’t accurately shoot anything longer.

The only reason you would select a .270 Win over a 6.5 PRC is ammunition availability, which almost certainly won’t be the problem some will claim as it is usually solved with a relatively easy internet search.

Regarding shooting deer at distance. You’ll get a lot of naysayers on here, simply though lack of experience, the culture, tradition and so on. You would be better off using one of the specialist long range forums or a forum in a country like New Zealand where a 500m deer with a 6.5 doesn’t bat an eyelid. What @srvet is getting at though is 100% valid, its not something you start doing after having only done close range stalking. You need a lot of practice and the best way to do that is to shoot gongs at varying ranges in varying conditions, on a property where you have proper natural terrain, shooting prone. Use flags along the line of sight to learn the wind, be prepared to get frustrated, make sure that you don’t start getting stingy on the amount you are shooting because the ammo is expensive. Believe me, shooting off the bench at Bisley won’t cut it, you need to shoot in the field.

Build up your confidence with experience, if you are a natural shot then it won’t be too long before you are pinging the 1 MOA gong at 600m.

Totally agree with Dodgy and for the record I am not totally opposed to long range hunting. In fact I have a couple of rifles set up for greater distance hunting myself. However what I realised when I got out shooting longer ranges is how fickle and unpredictable the wind can be. Even with wind flags every hundred metres or so the wind call on the first shot is nothing more than a guess. Once you have actual point of impact data then the second and third shots become more measured and predictable. As an example I recently shot at the excellent Eskdalemuir 2k range run by Gardners Guns and engaged a target at about 600m, at the firing point the wind was left to right and the 500m wind flag was showing right to left but the 700 m flag back to left to right. With wind direction changing so much, There is no way of guaranteeing a hit on a 1moa target at this range with the first shot which is what long range hunting is about. A lot of the change in wind direction in the above situation is down to the ground contour and cross valley shots may well be easier due to more uniform air currents but the point is that it is impossible to say what will happen with certainty.
All I’m saying is it’s easy to become Billy big balls with a flat shooting rifle and a diallable scope whose ego exceeds his ability. Get lots and lots of practice shooting gongs out to silly ranges and be honest about your first round hit probability before shooting live quarry at distance.

 

[Ronin]

Of course there is also the clever marketing employed by ammunition manufacturers making cartridges that people “want rather than need”

Everyone wants a creedmoor and PRC these days

Perfect marketing

From reading the posts, responses and in particular looking at the OP experience

I would certainly shy away from any long range specific cartridge

Spend a couple of years shooting on ranges at distance, learn to read the wind and perfect your technique with ONE rifle

Once your at the stage you can confidently hit at 4” disc at distance from any position then consider that your max distance to kill

Then and only then consider taking animals up to that distance

As has been alluded within the thread - the world and this forum is full of experts

Having shot against a few experts in competition who present perfect long distance shots on animals in you tube “look at Me” channels and seen how miserably they perform in reality

I’d think long and hard before taking then step to long range killing till you are proficient

 

[Apthorpe]

I have actually used a 6.5-284 and also a 6-284 up in northumberland back in the summer. Really easy to control and comfy to shoot. Will certainly look into it!



Im not sure i could afford to invest into reloading quite yet! More space, time and money is needed i think. Any recommendations for custom ammo shops? How much would custom ammo cost compared to factory ammo?

Given the other expenses associated with this project, I find it hard to understand why the cost of reloading would be prohibitive....especially if you're looking at £2.50 -£3 a round and limited retail availability. You'd have your money back within a couple of hundred rounds, and it sounds like you'll be using quite a few rounds practising.

My reloading kit doesn't quite fill a wine box and can't have cost more than £200. Of course, it is also possible to spend far more money on it if you wish.

 

[Stalker62]

Even with wind flags every hundred metres or so the wind call on the first shot is nothing more than a guess. Once you have actual point of impact data then the second and third shots become more measured and predictable. As an example I recently shot at the excellent Eskdalemuir 2k range run by Gardners Guns and engaged a target at about 600m, at the firing point the wind was left to right and the 500m wind flag was showing right to left but the 700 m flag back to left to right. With wind direction changing so much,

Have more than once, sat there scratching my head at the 1000 yard range - distance flags showing L-R, No wind and then R-L ; as the range disappears over the horizon.
It takes a better man than I.

Notwithstanding the obvious expertise in long-distance hunting from some on SD - I am good enough to know that I am not good enough.

 

[ejg]

As others said the biggest issue is actually hitting well at those ranges. Anything over say 300m needs good training and experience to judge right. Using all the data you have at that time and judging the tolerances of the info will give you an indication if you could take the shot or not. It is all a long learning curve. Anyone can hit a target once the rifle is adjusted properly, knowing what and how to adjust for the first shot is the trick.
The longest deer I shot was with a 300wm, I love the cartridge because from my rifles so far they seemed so reliable on first shot accuracy. Getting used to the cartridge was very quick, no surprises. With the 6.5 CM that I also use since two seasons one should in theory hit as well however my rifle was initially not close to the 300wm in long range reliability. Now slowly after improving the rifle my 6.5 CM is slowly getting there. More the rifles fault less the cartridge. I think one should also be realistic, in some countries the 6.5 is regarded as the smallest legal cal for deer even at 100m, now at 600m even with good BC bullets one can be a little critical about terminal performance. The 300wm will be closer to what is needed if set up right. Yes I have shot deer out to those ranges and I have seen the results with both cartridges. Recon the extra muzzle velocity of the 6.5PRC over the 6.5CM will help in terminal performance at the longer range.
edi

 

[jcampbellsmith]

Look at 284 winchester in a long action

While we wait for the 7-300 PRC to come off the Hornady marketing plan, I think this is an excellent approach.
Regards
JCS

 

[finnbear270]

While we wait for the 7-300 PRC to come off the Hornady marketing plan, I think this is an excellent approach.
Regards
JCS

Better get me order in Quick!

 

[User00033]

I would certainly shy away from any long range specific cartridge

Are you saying the 6.5PRC is a long range specific cartridge?

Spend a couple of years shooting on ranges at distance, learn to read the wind and perfect your technique with ONE rifle

This is precisely what the OP is saying he wants to do, with a new rifle. He’s been asking all the right questions, making efforts in all the right areas. I would have thought you’d have been all over the chance to help with a bespoke firearm for a discerning up and coming rifleman.

Having shot against a few experts in competition who present perfect long distance shots on animals in you tube “look at Me” channels and seen how miserably they perform in reality. I’d think long and hard before taking then step to long range killing till you are proficient

Ooohh thinly veiled Ronin, and utterly cynical. In fact your whole post is saturated with cynicism and yet here we have a perfectly reasonable young man, serving in the armed forces, off into a proper global hotspot right now actually, who is looking to make good decisions early in his shooting career that will form a solid foundation for his learning and experience over time. That’s absolutely nothing wrong with a 6.5 PRC, its a perfectly suited all-rounder for a guy that wants to use one rifle.

Elitism sucks just as much as the armchair experts who comment on everything they have no experience of. You’re in a perfect position with your background and experience to be contributing constructively to the guidance of a fellow like this but instead all the tired old tropes of Hornady this, marketing that, Creedmoor and new cartridge the other, YouTube look-at-mes and blah blah. Give the guy a break, he’s on the right path.

 

[Ronin]

Precisely

Which is why the advice to the op is to practice with one rifle of his choice until proficient at distance on paper or steel and then make the decision to stretch to killing at distance

Any deer legal (UK deer law) will afford that opportunity

If it were me I’d but something that one can walk into any gun dealer in the uk to buy ammunition for not something that’s fairly niche (at present)

I’d also avoid being drawn in to something marketing “driven “

 

[EDCM]

@Ronin 6.5PRC is on your reamer list. So I take it you are profiting by Hornady's marketing.

Is there anything else that is similar? i.e. .308 recoil and still supersonic at a mile? (Hornady's figures).

 

[Ronin]

6.5 PRC on reamer list as I am currently building one for a customer - who owns the reamer and who I will rent it from should I ever be asked to build another

What’s similar - and I’d take the suggestion that the recoil is no more than 308 level with a pinch of salt (perhaps a heavy barrelled 308 with light bullet,,,,)

284 Shehane possibly
7 WSM
7/270 WSM (or 300)
7 SaUM
7 STW
7 Rem Mag


300 magnums of which there are many

 

[User00040]

@Ackers-303 , you have a .22LR, yes?

If not, I would go and rectify that problem immediately. Learning to shoot a .22LR subsonic with consistency out to 100-150 (or even 200) meters is not to be scoffed at (although you will need half decent ammo, and a substantial amount of it.)

This will teach you most of the foundations required for 'long range' shooting before hopping onto the big powder burners.

-Proper rifle technique, hold, follow through etc.

-Wind holds, lots of.

-How to adjust the scope for drop and wind compensation (get a half decent far east one with locking turrets, 1/4 MOA clicks and parallax, Hawke make a good one with BDC for 22LR subs).

- If you have pests to shoot, all the better!

Benefits are cheap ammo, no earpro needed and some of the smaller clubs without a fullbore range can still be used.

A lot of 'trainer rifles' like the Tikka T1x are coming out, they are very good investments.

22LR PRS is getting extremely popular in the states for good reason.

Seen a lot of experienced people who can't hit anything with consistency simply because of a well-practised flinch.

 

[Ackers-303]

I do appreciate advice from all, as cynical as some may sound, the underlying themes of being totally proficient at any given range is an absolute must. I think the conversation has strayed somewhat, perhaps i could have been more specific in my own level of experience, and of the application of the rifle. It is to be an all round hunter, one that can take down large animals and have the potential to reach out.

@caberslash an excellent suggestion as i do not own a .22LR. may as well get one as they are so darn cheap. I would consider myself a competent shot, with decent knowledge base of the principles of shooting well and accurately enough through the forces and have done some target shooting with the ARA. My Mrs is in the GB Biathlon squad, and excellent biathlon rifle shot and we do train together occasionally. Certainly not saying i have enough to go long range, but a foundation. Proper experience dialing for variables is where im more inexperienced, so your suggestion of a trainer rifle could help save a bob or two!

 

[User00040]

@Ackers-303 , after getting a .22LR and learning wind calls, show your Mrs. this clip:

 

[scotch_egg]

Get a .308 and use ggg ammunition. Shoot lots and lots for far less than a PRC would cost to shoot.

When you are ready get the PRC. Your previous wind holds will be less, so any wind reading error will be diminished.

 

[User00033]

I’d also avoid being drawn in to something marketing “driven “

Why?

The early adopters of 6.5 PRC down here in our community are extremely happy with their decision. Some of these guys are top notch Alpine hunters, out there doing the hard yards. Do you think marketing blinded them and they just hopped on a bandwagon so they could be cool and groovy? Or do you think that maybe they studiously analysed the ballistics, the projectile availability, the conditions in which they would be shooting, the species they were targeting, and reached an informed decision?

All this "marketing driven" nonsense was trotted out for years about the Creedmoor. A fad, they said. Just a wannabe they said. Will fade away they said. Over and over and over again.

Now look at it.

The simple fact of the matter is that Hornady has stolen a march on the other manufacturers by innovating hard, using renowned shooting experts to partner with them and new media channels to get the word out. And man has it worked. Ask yourself, as an investor, who would you put your money behind? Hornady, Sierra (fluffed the TGK launch terribly), Speer (hoping for a civil war) or Berger (niche Lizt-itis with nothing new to offer)?

I get that anything newfangled has always been a hard sell in the far north of England, but mate, really, they won. Move on.

 

[User00040]

@dodgyknees

But but but but... my 6.5 Swede!!!

 

[scotch_egg]

@dodgyknees how many rounds are your fellow NZ’ers getting out of their PRC’s?

I’m sure it’s based on the GAP 6.5 4S and round count was around 1000.

 

[User00033]

No idea, not sure anyone has got to the end of barrel life yet. These are hunting rifles, not benchrest, so after initial load development, round count is generally low for years and years.

The other thing to remember is that barrel life isn't really a factor, as the focus is on optimising the ballistics and terminal performance and using it as such, then just replacing the barrel if and when it wears out.

 

[User00033]

Edit: 1,400 - 1,600 rounds according to Dave Emery.