glasshalffull
Well-Known Member
Viruses tend to adapt much quicker than bacteria too. Just thinking the euphoria is a tad premeditated?
Any others cynical about a vaccine?
- Thread starter deerstalker.308
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They mutate all the time, mostly this small changes in the DNA which allows one to track the movement of the virus. There is a neat bit of work showing how some folk got covid on a flight to NZ. as they all had the same mutation, it was possible to say who the source was. (the same principle is use to tell which version of bTB is present).
The mutations to worry about in viruses are those that alter the ability of the virus to attach to our cells and which cells. The SARS-CoV-2 sticks to a receptor called ACE-2 and we have lots in our respiratory tracts and the virus sticks to it really well. As it transmits easily in pre-symptomatic people, there is no selection pressure for any mutations to survive.
The W.H.O. are aware of 65000+ gene variants of this virus. [excerpt below]
Of comfort to us all, and vaccine developers, must be that all variants detected use the same spike cell attachment/cell-penetration mechanism.
But I agree that the expectation of a "silver-bullet" for this or any of life's future ills is probably misplaced.
What will serve us better is anchoring ourselves to sound principles of pandemic management, before they arrive.
I think not only the speed, but the method by which the Pfizer and Oxford vaccines were developed gives us a lot of hope for even quicker development of vaccines to combat viruses which will inevitably appear in the future
This article explains why it typically takes 10 years to get a vaccine from conception to injection
www.bbc.co.uk
For most of that 10 years nothing happens!
In the case of the coronavirus vaccine, virtually all that non productive time was removed and a continuous effort could be maintained to produce an effective vaccine.
For sure, all the drug companies with successful vaccines will make big profits, but when they make a product that will save lives rather than something to give you a hard on, the profits are justified
Cheers
Bruce
This article explains why it typically takes 10 years to get a vaccine from conception to injection
Oxford vaccine: How did they make it so quickly?
Good fortune and scientific brilliance were behind the Covid-19 vaccine being developed so quickly.
www.bbc.co.uk
In the case of the coronavirus vaccine, virtually all that non productive time was removed and a continuous effort could be maintained to produce an effective vaccine.
For sure, all the drug companies with successful vaccines will make big profits, but when they make a product that will save lives rather than something to give you a hard on, the profits are justified
Cheers
Bruce
glasshalffull
Well-Known Member
No selection pressure yet.
Where does selection pressure come from that causes a virus to mutate?
Every time the virus reproduces, there's a chance of mutation, but I don't think that's selection pressure.
Cheers
Bruce
Every time the virus reproduces, there's a chance of mutation, but I don't think that's selection pressure.
Cheers
Bruce
Hayduke
Well-Known Member
Looks like the Oxford vaccine is now the front runner after Pfizer misled government over the longevity, cold storage and transport requirements of their vaccine, MHRA are investigating.
This is good news for two reasons, the Oxford vaccine uses well tested anti viral technology, not stimulating the immune system in a way it hasn't been done before (like Pfizer's mRNA vaccine), and Oxford are making their vaccine available at cost to developing countries, which Pfizer are not.
Mystery how Pfizer anticipate deploying a drug in developing countries that only lasts three to four days and must be stored at seventy degrees C.
This is good news for two reasons, the Oxford vaccine uses well tested anti viral technology, not stimulating the immune system in a way it hasn't been done before (like Pfizer's mRNA vaccine), and Oxford are making their vaccine available at cost to developing countries, which Pfizer are not.
Mystery how Pfizer anticipate deploying a drug in developing countries that only lasts three to four days and must be stored at seventy degrees C.
Selection pressure doesn't promote mutation. That is happening continually. Selection pressure causes one of those mutations to proliferate due to it having some sort of advantage over the rest of the population. As per Buchan's explanation, if a mutated form was suddenly more virulent or more easily transmitted then it's significant and would result in the nutated form suddenly proliferating. That's not the case here as all (most?) forms are already equally likely to transmit and replicate.
This. This pandemic has been caused by China failing to regulate its "wet markets" which would have taken little if no effort if the political will had been there. Yet the whole world has to suffer the catastrophe that covid-19 has become.
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Hayduke
Well-Known Member
This and:
Failure to warn us.
Failure to stop international travel out of Wuhan (whilst stopping domestic travel)
Failure to allow unimpeded access to international investigators
Send them the bill, or write off our debt.
With virus mutations they generally get weaker, as I understand has happened with HIV. It is not in a virus' interests to kill off hosts. Like everything in life they want to survive. If they kill hosts they die, hence the weaker strains are sustained and evolve.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Can we ask Rishi to send them the bill? Can't really see why we should suffer financially for the next twenty plus years for their negligence and lack of timely response, it's not as if they didnt know it was happening.
Uk to be the first to try the Pfizer vaccine?
www.breakingnews.ie
UK regulator set to approve Pfizer Covid vaccine next week, reports say | BreakingNews
The first immunisations using the BioNTech and Pfizer vaccine could take place from December 7th
www.breakingnews.ie
I've already got my sleeve rolled up and waiting 
Cheers
Bruce
Cheers
Bruce
Stamping on the ‘anti-vaxxers’ – a very stupid idea
17th November 2020 The COVID19 pandemic has thrown into sharp relief the concerns that a number of people have about vaccination. However, such is the eagerness to develop a vaccine, and get everyo…
drmalcolmkendrick.org
Fair play to the three lads....
email.independent.ie
Former Presidents Obama, Bush and Clinton volunteer to get coronavirus vaccine publicly to prove it's safe
Former Presidents Barack Obama, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton are volunteering to get their Covid-19 vaccines on camera to promote public confidence in the vaccine's safety once the US Food and Drug Administration authorizes one.
email.independent.ie
So tell us - when you are offered a vaccination for Covid - will you accept?View attachment 183289
Stamping on the ‘anti-vaxxers’ – a very stupid idea
17th November 2020 The COVID19 pandemic has thrown into sharp relief the concerns that a number of people have about vaccination. However, such is the eagerness to develop a vaccine, and get everyo…
And if not - why?
Cheers
Bruce
No, I will not have the mRNA vaccine.
Per the excellent Godfrey Bloom presentation of evaluating risk-benefit, I personally do not need to inject my body with a novel-rushed-to-market mRNA-based drug because my body has already caught, battled and sloughed the SARS-CoV-2 virus. I have every reason to believe that I have therefore bolstered the ranks of those swelling the headcount of herd immunity, naturally. It is worth noting that the administration of vaccines merely adds to that herd without exposing the patient to the capstan-strength virus.
Global CDC data would suggest that the world does not need a vaccine for a virus that (a) is now globally endemic and (b) has a CFR around 0.08%. Ivor Cummins and a myriad experts have unpacked the statistical data surrounding covid's limited future attrition and that data seems compelling. First statement to be made: there is no second wave in the U.K. Vallance-Whitty-Ferguson will not be treated well by history. 22 international studies declare lockdown did not alter covid mortality anywhere. SARS-CoV-2 is a corona virus that ran its first course in 2020. And like other corona viruses it will emerge seasonally hereafter and take some lives each year. Typically those in immunosenesence. You do know the average age of those who succumbed in the U.K. is 82.5, right?
So the last two reasons one might entertain the risk of injecting an mRNA vaccine [of no benefit to self] could be ones of altruism or compulsion.
Altruism: If I genuinely believed that (a) the mRNA vaccines were safe (b) that my having it would alter the statistical probability of early death for those around me (c) that I do not have hard won natural immunity, then I would consider taking the vaccine...in 18 months time.
Compulsion: If, as Rasputin's research suggests, we will be coerced into a vaccine, whether or not the nation needs it, then I will look to navigate that hurdle. I will press for T-Cell testing as a valid alternate to vaccination. If I cannot live freely without a vaccine, I will probably have the Astra-Zeneca offering...at some point in the future.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
All the Bilderberg and Davos boyos will be in the vanguard, to be sureFair play to the three lads....
Former Presidents Obama, Bush and Clinton volunteer to get coronavirus vaccine publicly to prove it's safe
Former Presidents Barack Obama, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton are volunteering to get their Covid-19 vaccines on camera to promote public confidence in the vaccine's safety once the US Food and Drug Administration authorizes one.
; Clinton will later claim he didn't inhale but instead spaffed his shot on an intern, Dubya will be looking for the 'chemical weapons-grade' vaccine where none can be found, and O'bama will take so long to decide whether or not to go through with it that herd immunity will have been reached, especially in Syria. Broke-toe Biden will do as his nursing staff see fit. Let's hope Tony B.liar and Sir Johnny Major and the similar 'heroes of the past' get theirs too - why not? - they're all useful reminders to society that 'all political careers end in failure', its only right they try to further advance their chances to outlive their past... 
You're cynical by nature, that's cool.All the Bilderberg and Davos boyos will be in the vanguard, to be sure
It would be a boring ol' world if we all thought the same.
Well, if we are coerced into being vaccinated, I want to be the guy that sticks the feckin needle into your arm
Cheers
Bruce
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