Namman
Well-Known Member
And just how much have you given away?
Any others cynical about a vaccine?
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Rewulf
Well-Known Member
For Troll Hill to talk about cynicism , while nearly every post of his drips with bile is actually quite funny .
He will now probably say something about me being 'special'
Getting 'fairly' predictable now.
I give all my love to the world , every day , without bragging about it
I'm not sure that this is quite correct.
At the risk of repeating myself; There is no meaningful difference between immunity gained via vaccination or exposure to the native virus.
I was working on the assumption that the immunity gained from either was long lived and offered long term protection. But, as Fair Hill so correctly pointed out, there have been (admittedly limited numbers of) people who have contracted COVID multiple times and exhibited symptoms, so this is not the case. The risk of reinfection is lower than of contracting it the first time and symptoms do appear less severe, but it is possible. Naturally acquired immunity is not necessarily long lived, nor is it 100% effective.
I do agree with you that you likely do retain some immunity, but this is not total immunity, it is qualified immunity. Risk reduction, not a 'cure'.
The vaccine is just as good as copping a dose of COVID at conferring protection, it's just that neither gives you long term, complete immunity. It just helps because at least some of that T memory cell mediated response is retained over longer periods.
I would tentatively suggest that the optimal approach is to reach a high level of this qualified immunity by whatever means possible (vaccination or exposure, and if we really can swing 20 million doses of vaccine, vaccination would be quicker) and then immediately ensure that the population is exposed to the virus as much as possible to ensure that this immune response is 'topped up' by native virus exposure in day to day life. Doing so will (mostly) protect most people and should provide a route to eventual viral elimination as herd immunity will be achieved and maintained.
Opting not to vaccinate would achieve this response if the virus is prevalent in the population (the swedish option), but it will, on balance, be safer to reach immunity through vaccination than exposure to the real deal.
What is not an opition is to hide away for months and months post vaccination whilst the entire world rolls out their vaccination programs, because doing so will quite possibly render those initially vaccinated 'at risk' again as their immunity drops off due to no exposure as antigen response and T cell memory declines. Or at least, if we are to do this, we need to plan for not only an initial vaccination and a top up, but rolling booster shots throughout the period where the virus is endemic to ensure that herd immunity is maintained and a reservoir is not allowed to persist in the population.
Freeforester
Well-Known Member
Great - how do we go with the NZ model, along with most of the rest of the world where the virus has a good hold, and how do you get a largely tourism related economy like NZ's 'opened up again'?
It's not all doom and gloom fella, sometimes you have to roll with the punches and then fight back stronger than ever..Great - how do we go with the NZ model, along with most of the rest of the world where the virus has a good hold, and how do you get a largely tourism related economy like NZ's 'opened up again'?
Market Watch: 2020 highs and lows ... and what to watch in 2021
Market Watch: Covid-19 killed the long bull market in March but it wasn't gone for long.
www.nzherald.co.nz
Rasputin
Well-Known Member
It's not all doom and gloom fella, sometimes you have to roll with the punches and then fight back stronger than ever..
Market Watch: 2020 highs and lows ... and what to watch in 2021
Market Watch: Covid-19 killed the long bull market in March but it wasn't gone for long.
NZ and Aus both sleep walking into an economic nightmare sponsored by China.
Aus issues negative yields on bonds today. Yet investors buying them up. Why because Aus is exporting all its resources to China the perennial commodity buyer so the currency flying. NZ relies on China for its agri export markets. So good luck with all that
You're wasted here on a hunting forum kid, you have all the answers.NZ and Aus both sleep walking into an economic nightmare sponsored by China.
Aus issues negative yields on bonds today. Yet investors buying them up. Why because Aus is exporting all its resources to China the perennial commodity buyer so the currency flying. NZ relies on China for its agri export markets. So good luck with all that
Not only do you know more than international medical experts, but you could teach most governments a thing or two on how they should be running their respective countries and now it turns out you're not only more knowledgeable than successful foreign investors but you're willing and able to offer all of the above your incredible insider knowledge for free.
If you could **** when you're walking you'd be a horse of a man.
Rasputin
Well-Known Member
Does Aus have a double edged sword reliance on China ? Yes
Do foreign investors see value of a currency appreciation in their bonds? Yes
Are the foreign investors speculators ? Yes
Does China represent major trading partner with NZ ag exports dairy meat etc? Yes
Fail to see how any of that is insider knowledge or anything other than glaringly obvious. But you get back to your insults for anyone that dares question you as it’s obviously a nice little coping mechanism you have developed.
You keep answering your own questions there kid and ignore all else around you.
I didn't know you were a psychiatrist as well, fair play. Another string to your bow and another freebie.
Finally, the press are latching on to the ONS data and asking how this govt have kept with the advice from Whitty, Vallance, Ferguson given how often they have missed the mark.
www.spectator.co.uk
Did false data lead to lockdown?
When shaping policy to protect us from Covid-19, the government relies on data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) to provide the scientific basis for its actions. The weekly ONS coronavirus survey is supposed to be the information gold standard — and in particular it underpinned Boris...
www.spectator.co.uk
mchughcb
Well-Known Member
Great - how do we go with the NZ model, along with most of the rest of the world where the virus has a good hold, and how do you get a largely tourism related economy like NZ's 'opened up again'?
Yes and its painfully obvious to governments as well. However the mines are not run by the state but the state is all to happy to collect the royalties.
You are so good at finding stuff on the internet that suits your viewpoint. Maybe spend a few minutes investigating the amount of effort that is being put into developing vaccines and treatments for some of these other deadly diseases.
Rewulf
Well-Known Member
That suit my viewpoint ? Does that mean they arent true , or you just dont like uncomfortable facts ?
Heres another fact , because Im so good at finding stuff on the internet
Flu kills (on a 5 year average) around 17000 in the UK every year, this is NOT a novell virus, we have basic herd immunity, we have a vaccine that has been used for years.
Covid is a brand new virus, we have no real herd immunity, we have just got a vaccine , by the end of this year, it might kill 80000 people, most of them over 70.
We have created fear , division, lockdowns, mandatory masks and social distancing, destroyed our economy, and left millions unemployed.
Thousands more will die due to lack of medical attention or testing, the social effects of possible mandatory vaccination cannot even be envisaged yet.
All because of a virus , whose origin is a mystery, that kills 4-5 times more people than an average flu year.
Thats the facts of the matter, a little uncomfortable for you ?
If they are factually correct, why would that be uncomfortable?That suit my viewpoint ? Does that mean they arent true , or you just dont like uncomfortable facts ?
Heres another fact , because Im so good at finding stuff on the internet
Flu kills (on a 5 year average) around 17000 in the UK every year, this is NOT a novell virus, we have basic herd immunity, we have a vaccine that has been used for years.
Covid is a brand new virus, we have no real herd immunity, we have just got a vaccine , by the end of this year, it might kill 80000 people, most of them over 70.
We have created fear , division, lockdowns, mandatory masks and social distancing, destroyed our economy, and left millions unemployed.
Thousands more will die due to lack of medical attention or testing, the social effects of possible mandatory vaccination cannot even be envisaged yet.
All because of a virus , whose origin is a mystery, that kills 4-5 times more people than an average flu year.
Thats the facts of the matter, a little uncomfortable for you ?
Just think for a moment. if governments around the world had not resorted to lockdowns and other measures, how many of us would have been infected now and how many would have died? Yes of course you are right that the flu is also deadly. But am I correct in thinking that there are many different strains and it is difficult to vacinate against all types? Is it OK that most of the victims are over 70? Do you perhaps see them as a drain on society? Maybe we should start some form of system like they had in Logan's Run. Give everyone a couple of years of good retirement and then off to the sleep shop. I am not saying that I think vaccinations should be compulsory and I think there has been untold damage to our economies but I am not sure what the alternative should have been. F**k the over 70s???
I reacted to your insinuation that there was very little drive to find cures for other diseases. Have you by any chance looked at how much money and effort is being made worldwide on these other deadly diseases? Or is it uncomfortable that you made statements you cannot back up with facts?
Rasputin
Well-Known Member
Don’t know about psychiatrist but after reading and replying to your posts I definitely feel like a gynaecologist !!!
Rewulf
Well-Known Member
If they are factually correct, why would you say they suit MY viewpoint ?
I dont know , you could ask the Swedes how it worked out for them ?
Well that escalated quickly
I was just stating a FACT , did it make you feel uncomfortable ?
I never said any such thing, billions are spent on finding cures and treatments for 3rd world diseases, theres only one problem, those countries most afflicted cant afford them.
So there never seems to be an end to the death toll.
And thats an uncomfortable fact.
You specifically said ", where is the drive to eradicate TB ? Malaria, and a host of other deadly diseases ?"If they are factually correct, why would you say they suit MY viewpoint ?
I dont know , you could ask the Swedes how it worked out for them ?
Well that escalated quickly
I was just stating a FACT , did it make you feel uncomfortable ?
I never said any such thing, billions are spent on finding cures and treatments for 3rd world diseases, theres only one problem, those countries most afflicted cant afford them.
So there never seems to be an end to the death toll.
And thats an uncomfortable fact.
If that is not an insinuation that nothing is being done what is it?
How should we interpret your statement "most of them over 70" ?
It hasn't worked very well for the Swedes. I really wish people would stop bringing them up as an example. More than 3 x as many infected than Denmark and 8 times as many dead and their other neighbours Norway and Finland are way better than that.
Rewulf
Well-Known Member
Actually , no , it INSINUATES nothing of the sort, as I stated , huge amounts of money get thrown at it, for small reductions in mortality.
If those countries had more disposable income, then Im sure they would make better progress, but thats not really what we are talking about here, you are simply deflecting , because your argument is so weak.
Well you could interpret it as it states 'Most people who die via covid , are over 70' Its a fact.
If you want to believe that I meant that was a good thing, then fill your boots, but once again , you are deflecting.
You really wish people would stop bringing up those pesky uncomfortable FACTS
COVID-19 deaths per capita by country| Statista
COVID deaths worldwide were highest in Peru, topping a list that compares deaths per million in 210 countries worldwide.
www.statista.com
Swedens per capita death rate, WITHOUT harsh lockdown measures, with masks 'not advised' is 714 per million , or 0.07%
The UKs is 942 , just a tad below my quoted 0.1 % but whose worried eh ?
Belgium, with full lockdowns ect is over twice that of Swedens at 1540 per mil, but you dont hear too much about that do you ?
So , tell me again how Sweden isnt doing very well ?
Mick Miller
Well-Known Member
EU has paused programme due to infertility caused by the new 'vaccine'. Aus has halted rollout due to recipients going onto develop HIV antibodies. It is not necessary as this testimony attests. We could simply use already available, tested, prescribable medicines to remove the risk of CV19 until the 'pandemic' passes.
www.mrctv.org
Physician Tells Senate, Ivermectin Is a COVID 'Wonder Drug'; If You Take It, You Will Not Get Sick' | MRC Video | MRC Video
MRC Video, the multimedia arm of MRC, offers original content and news videos for conservatives, featuring TV appearances, analysis, and humor.
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