The advice to photocopy certificates before surrendering for renewal.

[scrun63]

. It is the profoundly ignorant concept that "if the police "got after you" then you MUST have done SOMETHING wrong". That belief by the populace is the foundation stone of fascism. It is alive, well and THRIVING at The Stalking Directory. Since The Stalking Directory purports to represent "Stalking and Stalkers" in Great Britain, it is simply a reasonable person that would conclude that that attitude pervades among Great Britain's stalkers.
Oh by the way... I was a SWORN Peace Officer for 12 years. I KNOW what the *******s are capable of.

As an ex copper myself (and God forbid a Lincs one at that) I will just throw my halfpennth in. As i have seen in life there are two sides to every story. So we should stand back without jumping in and not knowing the facts. I'm sure that further down the line the facts will come out and Brithunter will let us know what allegations are made by the Police and if any prosecutions (god forbid) are to take place and what the result will be. Hopefully it will be an over reaction by the Police on - hopefully - honest grounds and things can be sorted out, at least if not amicably, at least to very ones satisfaction

Brit - as a very new copper I was amazed at the lack of knowledge the police had about firearms. But that was because most coppers never come into contact with firearms in the service or home life. I was the onlly one on my shift who could identify a replica firearm from the genuine article. The Police do a difficult job with never enough training. If they have seized items they are not entitled to then i'm sure it was not deliberate, but a lack of knowledge - and one only has to look on here to see how confused "knowledgeable" people are - and i include myself in that !

Finally gitano. You berate people on this site for generalising and grouping people together and then you do in your comments ! Why would the comments from a few people on this site (that you have every right to misagree with - we live in a free country) make you judge us all ? If you want to come to the UK then come and meet the peoeple and please dont judge on posts - which i've learnt to my disadvantage can be read in completely the wrong way and misconstrued

Please note- i make no judgements on any of the above - i'm just stating what i know and asking questions

Heres hoping everyone involved gets their just desserts

Andrew

 

[Paul at Fechan]

Thank you, a post to bring back calm....

Anyway, a shooting friend had his guns removed and both he and I were charged with really stupid things after going wildfowling at the foreshore at Gretna. While it is perfectly ok to go wildfowling on the Scottish foreshore in season which it was or even to use a rifle there where there is good reason we were charged with 'the recless discharge of a weapon across a public right of way' and 'being in posession of a loaded weapon in a public place'. Now this went to court before charges were dropped at a few hundred pounds costs each but it was all sorted out. This all because of a phonecall to the police from an anti and a police officer with a bad attitude who I made the mistake of saying to 'you don't actually know what you're talking about do you'.

Be nice to them for the reasons above.

 

[gitano]

Well Andrew, I thought I made it clear that there were people at TSD that I found truly 'of like mind' at least. I wasn't painting with a broad brush. My comments with regard to certain "tendencies" at TSD were NOT based on what this particular thread has demonstrated, but rather what 'pops up' EVERY TIME someone mentions some "police action". It WITHOUT EXCEPTION that there are MANY that immediately take the position that whatever the cops did was correct "when we hear the whole story", and "if you got nicked, it was your own fault". There is NOTHING wrong with responding to Brithunter's experience AND REPRESENTATION by saying something like the following: "That terrible! I hope everything works out well for you." Or, "What a terrible experience that must have been. I hope when it is all done you are OK." That neither "condemns" the police nor does it "vindicate" BH. For me, that is the simple TRUTH. It IS a terrible thing even if BH is "guilty as sin" of "something". I DO hope it works out best for him REGARDLESS of his legal liability. And there's not a damn thing wrong with offering that support to a fellow hunter REGARDLESS OF HIS "INDISCRETIONS".

I'll not apologize for assuming the best of BH before I know any more of the situation than his side of it. Of the two - cops vs friend - I'll choose friend until I am PROVEN wrong. This forum isn't a courtroom. There is no requirement OR VALUE of 'cold neutrality'.

Paul

Now this went to court before charges were dropped at a few hundred pounds costs each but it was all sorted out.

How would you have felt if when this first came out - "Your side of the story" - all your "friends" had jumped on the police bandwagon of "Well you MUST have done SOMETHING" wrong or they wouldn't have charged you"?

Be nice to them for the reasons above.

Do you really WANT to live in circumstances in which you HAVE TO "BE NICE" or else be falsely charged by the police and END UP IN COURT? Of course I know that is "the way it is". "The way it is" is NOT the point.

Paul

 

[geordieh]

In all honesty I am forced to admit that the longer I read the posts on this forum the more I understand. You guys scare the hell out of me.

The following are indisputable facts:

1) BH is a long-standing member here at the Stalking Directory,
2) No one here knows the facts regarding the raid on BH's property better than he does. He is the ONLY one with first-hand observation,
3) "You" have NO fact-based reason to believe that his representation is incorrect.
Yet...

"You" are willing to conclude that if the police actually did something like that described, that he MUST be guilty of SOMETHING. Furthermore, the more he asserts his "innocence" the more you SPECULATE on the very nature of his "guilt" and FABRICATE "examples" of his "indiscretions". Never was the saying, "With friends like you, who needs enemies" more appropriate. Either you are scared shitless that this will happen to you if you don't "pile on", or you are truly the most evil of self-righteous.

Don't EVER, in my presence, stand and point your finger at the German populace for "standing by" or "helping" the nazis effect their police actions. You ARE them.

Since I became a member of The Stalking Directory I have met some truly fine people. Those people's behavior made me want to come to Great Britain to share a hunting experience with like-minded men. Not too long ago, I TOLD my wife - not asked her if she wanted to go, TOLD HER - that we were going to go to Great Britain so I could hunt with some fine people. This thread has COMPLETELY reversed that emotionally-driven desire. Hell will freeze first. I am old enough to know how to avoid the clutches of all but the most aggregous fascists, but there is NO protection, legal or personal that can protect one from the ravages of "righteous, well-behaved, "good" citizens".

May God help Great Britain.

Paul

Hi All
I was only talking to another member of the stalking directory two days ago about a little gang from north of hadrians wall that seem to come out on the attack when in their opinion somebody has done something wrong.Their arrogance,self righteousness and holier than thou attitude knows no bounds. Just have a look through some of the old posts and you will soon spot them they must have caught it from the likes of bliar and brown,just all bitter and twisted.Paul don't judge us all the same there are a lot of good people over here if you want to come over here hunting and have a good time you can.Brithunter good luck and ref a conversation we had a while back you were right they do not like gun collectors.And please the rest of you when they get the referendum for scotish independence let us all push for a yes vote
Geordie

 

[jamross65]

In all honesty I am forced to admit that the longer I read the posts on this forum the more I understand. You guys scare the hell out of me.

The following are indisputable facts:

1) BH is a long-standing member here at the Stalking Directory,
2) No one here knows the facts regarding the raid on BH's property better than he does. He is the ONLY one with first-hand observation,
3) "You" have NO fact-based reason to believe that his representation is incorrect.
Yet...

"You" are willing to conclude that if the police actually did something like that described, that he MUST be guilty of SOMETHING. Furthermore, the more he asserts his "innocence" the more you SPECULATE on the very nature of his "guilt" and FABRICATE "examples" of his "indiscretions". Never was the saying, "With friends like you, who needs enemies" more appropriate. Either you are scared shitless that this will happen to you if you don't "pile on", or you are truly the most evil of self-righteous.

Don't EVER, in my presence, stand and point your finger at the German populace for "standing by" or "helping" the nazis effect their police actions. You ARE them.

Since I became a member of The Stalking Directory I have met some truly fine people. Those people's behavior made me want to come to Great Britain to share a hunting experience with like-minded men. Not too long ago, I TOLD my wife - not asked her if she wanted to go, TOLD HER - that we were going to go to Great Britain so I could hunt with some fine people. This thread has COMPLETELY reversed that emotionally-driven desire. Hell will freeze first. I am old enough to know how to avoid the clutches of all but the most aggregous fascists, but there is NO protection, legal or personal that can protect one from the ravages of "righteous, well-behaved, "good" citizens".

May God help Great Britain.

Paul

So for the sake of a good discussion let me get this right:

1) As BH is a long standing member of this site that means automatically he is in the right and the police are guilty of all the wrongdoings listed?
2)No one else here knows the facts regarding the raid and he is the only one with first hand info. Actually the police also have in their possession certain information that allowed them to justify their warrant being granted. That will be the warrant granted by a magistrate on being presented with the facts and not as BH suggested previously a drunken ex cop who has been thrown off the force into a licensing dept.
3)No fact based reason to suggest his representation is incorrect. Neither do you have any fact based reason to suggest his is correct. And for someone who served as a police officer for 12 years you appear to be a touch naive. People in ,my experience generally give a slightly biased opinion of a scenario when it comes to telling their side of a story. The police included.

What a ridiculous analogy to make referring to Nazi's and the population standing by. What was the choice they faced? Being shot? The threat of death would no doubt cause a lot of people to change their ethics on the spot.

And how dare you suggest we live in a fascist state and yet tell us your wife had no choice in attending Britain with you, because you told her that was what was to be! How hypocritical!!!

In my experience as a serving police officer of almost 27years there are always 2 sides to a story. Always. And best we listen to both before judging. All I did with one or two others was suggest that there may be more to this than meets the eye. I never suggested BH was lying, simply that certain things did not in my mind make a lot of sense.

Here is a wee story for you to ponder over when it comes to story telling. And as you automatically believe the above for the reasons you point out, then so must I believe this story as it was a friend of mine that was involved.

He is sent on a diversity course so that along with other officers can be told what can now be said to the ethnic minority members of our communities, some of which are close friends of mine before I am accused of being a racist as well as a fascist. Part of the course included an input from an Indian woman. During her input she related a story whereby she called the police after trouble with local youths. She suggested that the treatment she got was shocking, poor and far short of what she expected from the police force. She said this was because of her ethnicity. What she failed to do was recognise the officer in the audience who was in fact one of those that attended the incident she was referring to. He stood up and challenged her accusation, causing her not surprisingly enough to leave fairly sharply. Now, if that police officer had not coincidently been in the audience, and you had been, what impression would you have taken home with you that day of your local police force?

 

[Brithunter]

Hmmmm let me see here I have related the incident in the hope that others can learn from it. As yet I do not know what charges are being trumped up. There has been a verbal claim that I am manufacturing gun part . I was specifically asked if I had any gun components................... well of course I do every gun is made up of them plus I have a Sporterised P-14 by Century Arms in bits as I was going to re-machine the rear bridge to make it so that the same mounts could be used as on both my BSA sporterised P-14's made sense to me.

When i saw the officer witht eh wood stock i asked what do you want that for... his answer was :-


It's a component and i am removing all and any gun components.

To him anything that fits a guns needs a licence to own. There is still the fact that despite my certificate records showing what I hold they came with nothing to put the guns in nor the ammunition.. As for WS's comments. I could not supervise as they would not allow it, they would not allow me even to make a phone and when I insisted they assaulted me and arrested me so WS yes I was in handcuffs. This was planned and orchestrated from the word go their full intention was to arrest me for anything. I'll bet if I farted near one of them that would have been enough. My licences have been revoked................... happy now!

Now doubt the Police will have their version down and well rehearsed.

I have been at logger heads with Lincs firearms licensing since moving here some 6 years ago. They have been obstructive and the waste of the funds and Police time has been dreadful. I should have realised that something was amiss when only one FEO came. They always come in pairs. Renewal in the past has meant several visits of about 8 hours per visit.. No that is not a mistake they really do send all day for more than one day trying to be awkward. Every time my licence went in for anything it came back with the ammunition holding reduced. One one I rejected they cut the .270 holding down to 150 and 100 knowing full well i already had over 600 in stock.

Even more from now on the Polcie will get no help from us. It would not matter what they needed I would not lift a finger to help them. As for respect that has to be earned and they have done everything to do the opposite. I hold them in complete contempt.

Of course I was wrong to say no they could do as they wished. It was wrong to stand up for my non existent rights. I should have just laid down and they them wipe their boots on me like a door mat when the trampled over my body as they have done my rights.

I would not recognise more than one or two of the officers involved as they stamped on my glasses. Yes thy did I saw the officer pick them up when the armed thug knocked them off my face and the looked fine as I was forced over yet it seems he just put them into the entrance for mother to find and they are completely wrecked. He could have just handed them to me to Mother but no and despite my asking for them several times it was not until I got home did she show me them. Luckily I have a set of single vision glasses that I am having to use now rather than the vari-focals I normally wear. It is going to take a couple of weeks to straighten up the mess and damage they have caused here and even longer to discover just what they have stolen.

 

[gitano]

And how dare you suggest we live in a fascist state and yet tell us your wife had no choice in attending Britain with you, because you told her that was what was to be! How hypocritical!!

Can't argue with razor-like logic of that ilk.

Paul

 

[j0e_bl0ggs]

Hi All
I was only talking to another member of the stalking directory two days ago about a little gang from north of hadrians wall that seem to come out on the attack when in their opinion somebody has done something wrong.Their arrogance,self righteousness and holier than thou attitude knows no bounds. Just have a look through some of the old posts and you will soon spot them they must have caught it from the likes of bliar and broon,just all bitter and twisted.Paul don't judge us all the same there are a lot of good people over here if you want to come over here hunting and have a good time you can.Brithunter good luck and ref a conversation we had a while back you were right they do not like gun collectors.And please the rest of you when they get the referendum for scotish independence let us all push for a yes vote
Geordie

+1 Geordie (fixed it for ya!)


Better to give Brit the benefit of the doubt and wish him well until the facts are known, speculation really does not help at the moment.

 

[jamross65]

Can't argue with razor-like logic of that ilk.

Paul

It was actually a tongue in cheek response, but no doubt you recognised that. If I try and tell my wife something I realised quickly that when she responded with 'go on then' it was not an agreement and actually a dare...

 

[8x57]

"Better to give Brit the benefit of the doubt and wish him well until the facts are known, speculation really does not help at the moment."

I'll second or even third that.

Personally I think that Brithunter has prodded the tiger with a stick just once too often. He's made some extremly serious allegations on an open website which possibly is just worstening his situation. While I'm all for free speach there are also laws relating to slander and libel to consider and I think that it would be beneficial if this matter was not inflamed further. In fact reluctantly I would suggest that the moderators might even need to consider locking this thread for fear of causing additional harm. By all means Brithunter make allegations but only if you are able to substantiate them and are prepared to defend them in court.

I'll just repeat what was said earlier -

"Better to give Brit the benefit of the doubt and wish him well until the facts are known, speculation really does not help at the moment."

 

[Brithunter]

I have just learned the Police were even stopping the builders as they came in and out and searched the bucket with the waste they were taking out. There is a disabled level entry shower conversion going on right now. Wonderful bit of PR by the Police there .

 

[JAYB]

I have just waded through all of this, which I might add was a bit of a job owing to the more than a little smattering of rubbish it contains, and am amazed. Here we have a member who has had his house raided and his guns seized. This we can accept as fact, then we move on to what happened during the course of the search and seizure, what we have is BH's side of the story, and frankly I am unable to make much sense of that. Mainly due to the fact that he has maintained his usual barrage of insults against his local Constabulary, now what is actual fact and what is not will never be known by any of us on here, all we can do is WAIT until the outcome of the case, hospital visit, legal representations etc to try and make some sense of it.

I can't really see the need for any "in house" fighting, with any post like this people will express their opinions, but please remember that they are opinions based on what is relevant to the matter at hand. I would be grateful if any future posts could be relevant, informative and of use, if this is not the case then I will lock it.

 

[sikamalc]

I concour with what JAYB has written.

But why would the police raid anyones home unless there is a good reason? If the police have been heavy handed and they have made a mistake I am sure this will be rectified and hopefully an apology and compensation made.

I would also add that some on here have dismissed the fact that this site along with many others is probably monitored and although we are free to express our concerns there is a right way and a wrong way to go about this.

I hope that the situation is resolved quickly.

Sikamalc

 

[gitano]

My shock at the comments posted has forced me to reconsider my 'attitude' on several specific fronts.

First, I must admit to a perspective of the British police that is borne in ignorance. While I have visited England twice in my life, I have had no interaction with the police except at "the border", and that was innocuous and uneventful. What perspective I do have comes almost exclusively from Hollywood and the News Media. Those sources are complete idiocy. Americans think of the British police as "Those nice Bobbies". Wouldn't really hurt anyone or think of behaving brutally. I have to say that that view is almost sub-consciously rooted. So... I have cleared my mind of that naive and erroneous perspective.

Over the short duration of my tenure here as a member of The Stalking Directory I have received numerous Private Mails that have expressed deep concern (fear) of public agreement with my patently American, blunt comments. While struck by those private messages, I should have paid even more attention to them.

I apologize for not having done so.

I should have recognized the legitimate fear of the police by Stalkers in Great Britain. It was plainly stated, I simply didn't let it past my "nice Bobbies" brain-washing. This thread has brought the genuineness of that fear home to me. (I can have a thick skull sometimes. )

The public, written, statements by the forum's owner that "If the police raid they must have a good reason" and "If we choose to question the police's behaviour, be sure to do it the "right" way, not the "wrong" way", was the hammer that cracked my thick skull.

As I said in my first comments on this thread, "the longer I am here, the more I understand", I have had my "understanding" substantially increased. Since agreeing with my "off-shore" comments could land you in trouble, I have deleted ALL PMs to me associated with anything "controversial". I would however, submit that it is highly likely that "cooperation" with the 'local constabulary' by making available all archived PMs seems a real possibility to me. Therefore, I would recommend that you do the deletions as well if you haven't already. That may not eliminate the possibility that your messages will be "turned over" to the police, but it will make it more difficult to get them. In the future, I suggest you do NOT use The Stalking Directory's PM system to communicate with me. My email address - secure at least from the British police until I am considered a terrorist - is; pskvorc@biopar.com.

In closing, my sincerest apologies for my inability to recognize the legitimate danger to those of you that live with this fear. You have my word that I will attempt to not "pull the tail of the dragon" in a way that endangers my friends here at the Stalking Directory. My heart goes out to you. Truly.

Regards,
Paul

By the way... There's no "us and them" in my words above. Read this: Pre-Crime Policing - Reason Magazine

Paul

 

[JAYB]

My shock at the comments posted has forced me to reconsider my 'attitude' on several specific fronts.

First, I must admit to a perspective of the British police that is borne in ignorance. While I have visited England twice in my life, I have had no interaction with the police except at "the border", and that was innocuous and uneventful. What perspective I do have comes almost exclusively from Hollywood and the News Media. Those sources are complete idiocy. Americans think of the British police as "Those nice Bobbies". Wouldn't really hurt anyone or think of behaving brutally. I have to say that that view is almost sub-consciously rooted. So... I have cleared my mind of that naive and erroneous perspective.

Over the short duration of my tenure here as a member of The Stalking Directory I have received numerous Private Mails that have expressed deep concern (fear) of public agreement with my patently American, blunt comments. While struck by those private messages, I should have paid even more attention to them.

I apologize for not having done so.

I should have recognized the legitimate fear of the police by Stalkers in Great Britain. It was plainly stated, I simply didn't let it past my "nice Bobbies" brain-washing. This thread has brought the genuineness of that fear home to me. (I can have a thick skull sometimes. )

The public, written, statements by the forum's owner that "If the police raid they must have a good reason" and "If we choose to question the police's behaviour, be sure to do it the "right" way, not the "wrong" way", was the hammer that cracked my thick skull.

As I said in my first comments on this thread, "the longer I am here, the more I understand", I have had my "understanding" substantially increased. Since agreeing with my "off-shore" comments could land you in trouble, I have deleted ALL PMs to me associated with anything "controversial". I would however, submit that it is highly likely that "cooperation" with the 'local constabulary' by making available all archived PMs seems a real possibility to me. Therefore, I would recommend that you do the deletions as well if you haven't already. That may not eliminate the possibility that your messages will be "turned over" to the police, but it will make it more difficult to get them. In the future, I suggest you do NOT use The Stalking Directory's PM system to communicate with me. My email address - secure at least from the British police until I am considered a terrorist - is; pskvorc@biopar.com.

In closing, my sincerest apologies for my inability to recognize the legitimate danger to those of you that live with this fear. You have my word that I will attempt to not "pull the tail of the dragon" in a way that endangers my friends here at the Stalking Directory. My heart goes out to you. Truly.

Regards,
Paul

By the way... There's no "us and them" in my words above. Read this: Pre-Crime Policing - Reason Magazine

Paul

Paul,

I am going to be, what I consider to be uncharacteristically, blunt and suggest that you are talking absolute Bo££ocks. You admit that your first impression of the British Police was formed incorrectly and now you have formed another that is IMHO way off.

To suggest that UK stalkers live "legitimate fear of the police" is pure Hollywood, then we have "the possibility that your messages will be "turned over" to the police" what the hell is all that about? Finally we have this pearl of wisdom "In closing, my sincerest apologies for my inability to recognise the legitimate danger to those of you that live with this fear. You have my word that I will attempt to not "pull the tail of the dragon" in a way that endangers my friends here at the Stalking Directory. My heart goes out to you. Truly."

As a retired Police Officer I find your remarks quite offencive and as an owner of the site I am not too pleased either. You seem to be implying that you and yours are the only people entitled to free speech or to air their opinions publicly, thats quite offencive too. Also I am not sure what conclusions you have drawn from Malcolm's comments but I would hazard guess you got that wrong as well.

In short you seem to have come to a lot of incorrect conclusions, just look at one or two of the posts and understand their content. Which is that Brithunter has had his guns seized for a reason that seems to emanate from his nephew who is on bail, during the course of this seizure there appears to have been an altercation during which he was handcuffed. He is also alleging assault, criminal damage, and theft plus various other infringements.

That is the story as we know it, one half recalled by Brithunter with no one to represent the "other side". All will become clear, I'm sure, in the fullness of time so until then if you could keep your big brother theories to yourself, I would be grateful.

John

 

[gitano]

As a retired Police Officer I find your remarks quite offencive and as an owner of the site I am not too pleased either.

I am shocked.

Paul

 

[csl]

I think now might be a good time to end this thread before it gets any further out of hand and tempers get frayed any further.

Basically the core facts are:

a) We simply aren't in a position to judge either Brithunter or the police.
b) Although I can understand why he'd want to vent about what has happened I honestly don't think it's in Brithunter's best interest to be airing too many details, accusations or speculations that may prejudice his case on an open forum.
c) As fellow shooters I'm sure we all hope that this has arisen out of a misunderstanding and that it can be resolved. It's something no shooter worth their salt would wish on another shooter.

Hopefully Brithunter will be able to get back to us with some good news in due course, but until then, topic closed.

Alex