Advise please re: double rifle selection

[shooter]

Dear all,
I have been looking for a double riflr in 9.3x74r.

There are several options available and i wish to know what you would recommend.

1) Zoli, Antonio & Co. Focus 3 9.3x74R Rifle | New Guns for Sale | guntrader

Zoli, new, Double trigger, barrels can be regulated. Original factory regulated load not known (spoken to dealer), will need to work up a load.

2) Browning CCS 525 Elite 9.3x74R Rifle | Second Hand Guns for Sale | guntrader

Browning, nearly new, single trigger, barrels can be regulated, being sold by a SD member (If im very nice he may consider a SD member discount ), regulatory load known.

3) Beretta Silver Sable 2 9.3x74R Rifle | Second Hand Guns for Sale | guntrader

Beretta silver sable, single trigger, older model, shot count not known, regulation ammo known, Im not sure barrels can be regulated, close to me so i can have a look at it but not sure if i have enough knowledge to check the barrels/throat etc.

4) Bettinsoli, single trigger, i have been asking the company and dealer for 5 months to give me a price. They have provided me with named preferred dealer and brocure but not providing me a price. The dealer was so embaressed he said i may look elsewhere.

The first 3 rifles are the same price but my understanding is the bettinsoli may be 20% cheaper.

The main quarry will be boar but wouldnt mind trying it on deer (have deer permission for the rifle)

I know the final decision will be mine but i hope to get some advice from learned members.

 

[enfieldspares]

The Browning as unless (and it can and does happen) you are lucky you can spend hours of painful range time trying to get a load that matches the POA the rifle is regulated to. Having said that there's is only a limited selection of 9.3x74R loads so in theory find the correct one shouldn't be difficult. Ahahahahaha! The Browning also has the longer barrel and IMHO will be far far far the easiest to sell if you change your mind or move on to something else.

 

[shooter]

The Browning as unless (and it can and does happen) you are lucky you can spend hours of painful range time trying to get a load that matches the POA the rifle is regulated to. Having said that there's is only a limited selection of 9.3x74R loads so in theory find the correct one shouldn't be difficult. Ahahahahaha! The Browning also has the longer barrel and IMHO will be far far far the easiest to sell if you change your mind or move on to something else.

Thanks.
Please note the beretta has a regulatory load.

Also whats the diserable length? Asking because if the beretta is 23", should i prefer that over the browning?
Also the evergreen debate re: double trigger vs single trigger so thought I'd mention triggers in the OP

 

[TonyC]

I presume that youn have looked at and discarded side by side.
I have a Fabarm single trigger and really enjoy it, from the guns you list i would take the Browning for a number of sound reasons (resale/ simplicity/ availability).
In my opinion it will be better to have the ability to mount a DG scope or red dot sight so make sure mounts/ rail are available.

What ever you get enjoy it - it is awesome when the boar are running.

 

[shooter]

I presume that youn have looked at and discarded side by side.
I have a Fabarm single trigger and really enjoy it, from the guns you list i would take the Browning for a number of sound reasons (resale/ simplicity/ availability).
In my opinion it will be better to have the ability to mount a DG scope or red dot sight so make sure mounts/ rail are available.

What ever you get enjoy it - it is awesome when the boar are running.

You are right the sxs were a bit out of my budget. in general the O/u are cheaper.
Thanks for your advice

 

[Ade8mm]

My first response was Browning, then I saw the other replies - Browning

 

[Jagdmatch]

I have one of the Brownings and it's very good.
Some points:
The regulation is easy on the Browning and it's an ejector
Sight mounting requires either atience or paying somebody to do it
I think some of the berettas had no infil between the barrels which may be why the picture does not show the barrels but it has mounts
I tried to get a Bettinsoli but the UK importers did not want to help at all
It's between the Browning and the Beretta, I think the zoli is a bit too flash!

 

[shooter]

Thanks @Ade8mm and @Jagdmatch
My bettinsoli saga is painful too. I started by contacting them directly. They were very prompt and named their UK importer and CCd them to get in touch with me.

The importers claim that bettinsoli is not giving them a price. I call them every 3 weeks and it has been 5 months im not even getting a price let alone the gun.

Anyways the browning seems new and beretta old. Its not the age per se thaat worries me but the barrel wear.
The beretta dealers are open tomorrow; i will call them and try to get more infor but so far, it looks like the browning is winning.
re: sights I was thinking a red dot. Im bad at DIY so might be a question of getting a gunsmith to do it.

Edit- this is what shootinguk website review of the rifle says

"The rear rib also has the facility to mount fixed or detachable scope bases, which further enhances the usefulness of the CCS rifle during low-light, normal deer stalking duties."

 

[Ade8mm]

Sounds to me like Bettinsoli don't deserve to get any of your hard earned if that is how they conduct themselves , and yes if you can have some sort of quick-detatch system for your scope/ sight system then you will be able to bring out the true versitility of your double rifle. Keep us posted

 

[Fabnosh]

Take a look at the fabarm asper. It’s reasonably priced and a lovely boar gun.

FN

 

[Pine Marten]

Thanks.
Please note the beretta has a regulatory load.

Also whats the diserable length? Asking because if the beretta is 23", should i prefer that over the browning?
Also the evergreen debate re: double trigger vs single trigger so thought I'd mention triggers in the OP

So the fashion now is for doubles to have short barrels, many of the new ones have 55cm barrels, but the 9.3x74R is a punchy, slowish ("-ish" is important) round, it needs a decent amount of barrel length to come into its own. Also, short barrel with a load of unburned powder and muzzle flash don't help accuracy and the follow up shot that is the point of double rifles. Longer barrels will also help reduce recoil and with swing. But nevertheless, with a break barrel rifle, the action is so short that you can have barrels that may seem longer in a bolt action, and you still have a compact and fast handling rifle. For example my drilling has a 24" barrel, but its' overall length is under 1m.

 

[scotch_egg]

Save for the sxs

 

[Koenig]

If Zoli are being difficult when you want to buy their products imagine what they’ll be like in the future when you (god forbid) need a spare ‘widget’ for it because something broke or wore out or a warranty fix. Give up with them now. I always fancied one of those Brownings myself but it wouldn’t suit the sort of shooting I do. There was an old Shooting Times review I seem to recall that was very insightful into the regulating and zeroing aspects of setting up and owning one of these lovely looking rifles.

 

[Heym SR20]

Don’t go for too short barrels on a double. Remember they are like shotguns so 25” barrels are still short guns. And 25” barrels really keep the noise and blast down. 20” unmoderated barrels are just painfully noisy.

The whole point of a double rifle is that it should fit you well, be totally instinctive and shoot where you look. It should fit like a fine shotgun. When looking for one, handle and shoot what you can. Older guns are often better made than newer cheaper ones. If I was looking for a double in 9.3x74r I would be looking at a Merkel or similar Suhl or Ferlach built , mind you both Browning and Berretas are pretty tough and indestructible actions. I would always want double triggers on a double rifle. Does allow redundancy and also with an over and under you may find one barrel gives you a longer range zero



Regulation is well regulation, and adding a scope can easily screw this up. Or it might not. if it was built and regulated for a scope then good, but if not, scoping is more than just bolting on a rail.

But would question for driven piggies and a well fitting double do you really need a scope. I have a wide angle 1-4x20 on mine and must admit not convinced. I have put it on because I feel I should, but can shoot it perfectly well with open sights. If your eyes can’t use open sights, a red dot may be worth trying.

 

[Heym SR20]

And throughout Germany, Austria and France there are still artisanal gunmakers that will build good double rifles for not silly money. When Covid is finished take a road trip and go and visit a few and get something made for you.

Yes Brexit has made it more difficult on paperwork but not impossible.

Zimmermann Waffen oHG

Ihr Name - Hier finden Sie praktischen Tipps und Hinweisen für Ihr persönliches Wohlbefinden.

www.zimmermann-waffen.info

 

[8x57]

If Zoli are being difficult when you want to buy their products imagine what they’ll be like in the future when you (god forbid) need a spare ‘widget’ for it because something broke or wore out or a warranty fix. Give up with them now. I always fancied one of those Brownings myself but it wouldn’t suit the sort of shooting I do. There was an old Shooting Times review I seem to recall that was very insightful into the regulating and zeroing aspects of setting up and owning one of these lovely looking rifles.

I think you may have confused companies Koenig, Bettinsoli are being evasive not Zoli.

I have a Zoli Focus (made by Zoli but marked as Unifrance Solitaire). Its the older model with fixed barrels rather than the newer model where barrel divergence is adjustable by the user. They are a great rifle for the money that they originally cost. I love the detachable trigger unit which is a work of art. Mine was regulated with Norma Oryx ammunition. It's not an issue getting spares for them if you should ever need them as Edgar Brothers are now the Zoli importers, though there have been several distributors for Zoli in the U.K over the years.

I looked at a Bettinsoli before I bought my Unifrance Solitaire but at that time they were pretty much run of the mill and almost identical to numerous other lower priced express rifles that were widely available in Europe e.g. FAIR, Sabatti, Rizzini, Franchi, Verney-Carron etc.

The Browning and the Beretta Silver Sable are I believe both discontinued models unfortunately. Both good rifles but currently out of fashion as every one now wants a straight pull bolt action rifle rather than an express rifle (the philistines). Browning introduced a system of adjustment rings to their express rifles some years ago but there are still older rifles around that are not user adjustable.
I don't believe that the Beretta is adjustable either but these were a beautiful rifle and rather expensive when they were imported into the U.K.

There are so many variables with express rifles that I think the only way to choose is to actually view them and see if they fit because fit is even more important with an express rifle than it is with a shotgun. To be honest there are so few who understand express rifles in this country that I would be looking to buy in Europe.

 

[reiver]

I used to have a Berretta 689 silver sable in 9.3mm it used to shoot 286gr rws/geco and my reloads well out to 60m and open sights .
you may not get MOA from a double but a lot of guns will put both shots in a dinner plate size target and that is deemed satisfactory for driven Boar though most will be nearer 3-4" groups at 50-60m in field conditions
9.3x 74r tend to shoot best with 2400-2500 fps what ever bullet weight you go for.

 

[Ade8mm]

Here's 6 quick pairs from a s x s
8 x 60 jrs at 80 yrds. Traced from the target. The rising pairs are down to me not the rifle. ( If I reduced the charge a tad the pairs would close up and produce a composite three pair moa group but never bothered as this is sufficient for my purpose.)
If your new double can do this you will be fine

 

[suburban bushwacker]

A Finn Classic?

 

[Corvid8x57]

I started off with a second hand Bettinsoli 8x57 and then got the must haves after about 3 years for a 9.3x74r and got a Chapuis X4 - a beautifully made rifle - worth waiting a bit to get one that is absolutely right for you.