.22 LR non toxic

[Heym SR20]

Just an update - had a very good night tonight out on the rabbits using the non tox segmented rounds in the Annie

really pleased with accuracy and carcase damage, they are a keeper

Anyone near wanting to try half of a half of a brick of the non tox hollow point and can collect FOC

give me a shout, i can’t use them in my rifles

Glad that they work. Personally I am more than convinced of argument for not lead lead ammunition of potential food stuffs, nor indeed leaving it there for other animals / birds to consume. And its clear there is viable 22rf non toxic ammo.

Yes it makes a bit more noise than subsonics, but not really any more than other high velocity rim fire ammo.

 

[Bowland blades]

I tried the shorts round in normal lead and realistically I’m not sure it would consistently be accurate, i use my 22 rimmy out to a max of 70 yds which I think might be a bit stretchy for a short round

reducing the speed might also create a bouncer, probably a reason they hiked up the speed to stabilise the round, i shot the rounds out to seventy yards the segmented was good grouping at this range and a good knockdown on rabbits the hollow point was just sub a 2” group, that’s not all that good and not for me, they may group better in a different make of rifle
manufacturers Will I guess bring out other makes and types in various speeds shortly, just a matter of getting the right one that suits your rifle

It's a myth that reducing the velocity creates more ricochet. Energy is the biggest factor ie speed ! The only difference is you get a subsonic ricochet then you here it , anything faster than sound you won't hear gge ricochet !
The range of a ricochet is just like a bullet from the gun speed and mass dicate how far it gets and how much damage it does on arrival.
Hard copper bullets will of course retain mass very well I know they occur with copper deer bullets but do we hear them ? No !

 

[Woodenbeam]

its clear there is viable 22rf non toxic ammo.

Yes it makes a bit more noise than subsonics, but not really any more than other high velocity rim fire ammo.

The wonderful 22 subby is used where noise is an issue and loading up the things that make a bit more noise is not a viable alternative. Where noise isn’t likely to cause an issue I do use a suitable alternative…………the HMR.

 

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The wonderful 22 subby is used where noise is an issue and loading up the things that make a bit more noise is not a viable alternative. Where noise isn’t likely to cause an issue I do use a suitable alternative…………the HMR.

Eley subs are probably the most accurate round available period and are a joy to use, but I have had more bouncers with the eley sub than any other make, hence I use the higher pressure segmented where bouncers are rare

there are a phenomenal amount of 22 rounds / makes available, finding the right one is the fun bit

CCI Segmented and now the NT segmented are good for me, pretty happy with both rounds

 

[Bowland blades]

Eley subs are probably the most accurate round available period and are a joy to use, but I have had more bouncers with the eley sub than any other make, hence I use the higher pressure segmented where bouncers are rare

there are a phenomenal amount of 22 rounds / makes available, finding the right one is the fun bit

CCI Segmented and now the NT segmented are good for me, pretty happy with both rounds

What you are experiencing I feel is what you hear not what you nessarilly are getting ! The noise of a ricochet is actually a good thing it tells you it's not going to travel very far as its a mangled lump of lead that's expended much of its energy. Not as good as a sold thump into the quarry and soft earth but not as bad as a lamb falling dead some way on and 33 degrees to the side and behind your poa or a rooster tail of dew
Especially with the advent of copper we must remember the real dangerous ricochet is thecquite one ( traveling supersonic ) perhaps raising a roostertail of dew the next field on

 

[Overlay]

Another update on NT norma ammo
Been out tonight with a mate rabbiting on his ground, as a norm he uses eley subs in his CZ 22 which are sub 1/2 inch for 5 shots at 50 yds, he tried the Norma segmented NT shot a 5 round 1/2 inch group, 1/2 inch high from POA the norma hollow point shot a 2'' string in a upwards direction virtually mirrored my own test plate again started off 1/2'' high of POA

 

[MarkD123]

So are we saying that with non lead alternatives, sub-sonic is a thing of the past (when the ‘ban’ arrives)?
I think that’s the case and if so, it’ll be interesting times……..on a variety of levels.

 

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So are we saying that with non lead alternatives, sub-sonic is a thing of the past (when the ‘ban’ arrives)?
I think that’s the case and if so, it’ll be interesting times……..on a variety of levels.

I do hope not, eley subs are about the most accurate round made and are phenomenal for target and rabbits without a shadow of a doubt best all round ammo, to see them disappear would be a disaster as would the ones I use CCI segmented

As with most things in life it will be supply rather than demand that will put the cap on lead ammo, if the manufacturers are told to reduce making lead ammunition and supply non lead alternative albeit at a faster speed that is deemed accurate that is what we will only be able to get - one tap off another tap on

Because its a green issue these days everyone in government and the rest of the crap people jumps to the attention and gives themselves a pat on the back on getting another green thing done without thinking about who it will effect now what to do ???? Stock pile lead ammunition get increases on your ticket, I have 1200 on all my rimmy rifles which would get a grand final total of holding 3600 rounds in total that's not going to last long at all, or find the alternatives with non lead
In the very near future gamedealers will be using 100% lead scanners, guessing the deer will be the first hurdle, then game birds, rabbits, pigeons and wildfowl

It's coming without a doubt, non lead ammo on FE ground is now a very imminent requirement,

What to do - be an ostrich and make out it ain't happening just carry on regardless until there ain't no more lead available or making good use of the 6p's factor

Preparation and planning prevents **** poor performance

For once in this " green" mis management fiasco we at least can make a decision ourself for once use non toxic or not for now anyway

 

[Boosh]

Wonder if I could get my 22 ammo authority up to 20,000 on my ticket? Might see me out with the lack of bunnies nowadays.

 

[Bowland blades]

OK a few stupid people did this stockpiling thing in wildfowling when they where the first hit !
The result? There are still loads of heavy lead cartridges in the cupboards of old men that they never got to use . Few people kicked out of the clubs and a few lost thier licences and got fined .
Not worth it !
Best trick is start testing now and try to support the British companies that invest in building none toxic now . If we don't they won't give it funding or effort enough

 

[Boosh]

Sorry Bowland, although I will gladly move to the alternative, and will do my fare share of experimenting, (already have with centrefire), it won't stop me objecting to changing, and wont stop me digging my heels in a little in protest.
If there was sense behind the move rather than just because.
I understand the original move from lead to steel shot, but for head shot rabbits or target?

 

[Bowland blades]

Sorry Bowland, although I will gladly move to the alternative, and will do my fare share of experimenting, (already have with centrefire), it won't stop me objecting to changing, and wont stop me digging my heels in a little in protest.
If there was sense behind the move rather than just because.
I understand the original move from lead to steel shot, but for head shot rabbits or target?

Look at it like this
If we fight this and win ( keeping lead ) we actually loose ( the pr side with the genral public ) hence we feedcour enemies more" ammunition " to shoot at us because lead is unquestionably a toxic substance.
Regardless of this we have failed to dispose of grallochs correctly in all cases and we can not put lead shot deer into the dealers
Let's face it even nato backed away from this fight and they use depleted uranium in certain ammunition.
All we get to control ( at present ) is tge speed of change
Hope folks get thier heads around this
Perhaps we can keep using lead , but all carcasses must be collected to be safe from scavengers
In reality we need to have a fighting retreat this next 5 years . Something we came close to loosing
There was some utter rubbish forced onto wildfowlers , now we have incredible none toxic wildfowling shells. Personally I feel promising to loose plastic none degradable was the greatest mistake and it wasn't even on the agenda!
Prepare though because we will make more errors yet
It's intesting that although copper is at a high we no longer require it for much of our
communications cables now , yet it comes from Chinese owned copper mines in Africa

 

[Boosh]

I understand that totally Bowland, it won't matter what you make bullets out of, eventually the public will be against us with just one less excuse.
Constantly backing down, bending over, regrouping and kicking the can down the road, hiding from a fight just gives momentum that never ceases.
I just look at proposals from Basc in the past, giving ground, slowly the writing is on the cards.

 

[Bowland blades]

I understand that totally Bowland, it won't matter what you make bullets out of, eventually the public will be against us with just one less excuse.
Constantly backing down, bending over, regrouping and kicking the can down the road, hiding from a fight just gives momentum that never ceases.
I just look at proposals from Basc in the past, giving ground, slowly the writing is on the cards.

People said similar about Dunkirk!
BFSS failed by fighting the unwinnable !

The wad thing ? Should have fought that one much later on , too many folks without a proper working knowledge about steel shot and its qurks . Sometimes its best not to add fuel to a fire already burning out of control . Get it under control first

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Another update on NT norma ammo
Been out tonight with a mate rabbiting on his ground, as a norm he uses eley subs in his CZ 22 which are sub 1/2 inch for 5 shots at 50 yds, he tried the Norma segmented NT shot a 5 round 1/2 inch group, 1/2 inch high from POA the norma hollow point shot a 2'' string in a upwards direction virtually mirrored my own test plate again started off 1/2'' high of POA

What are they like between 70/90yds? bread and butter 22lr range.

 

[Overlay]

What are they like between 70/90yds? bread and butter 22lr range.

Had a few shots between 70-80 all were on the money, gotta say with a little re zero they are working out ok, price is a bit fierce but overall they work ok
only 3/4 of inch difference on POA with CCI lead segmented all calculable
I’ll stay with the Norma NT segmented if and when a change does come

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Had a few shots between 70-80 all were on the money, gotta say with a little re zero they are working out ok, price is a bit fierce but overall they work ok
only 3/4 of inch difference on POA with CCI lead segmented all calculable
I’ll stay with the Norma NT segmented if and when a change does come

I’m dreading the time when this kicks in, my 22lr is like a laser with Eley subs and I shoot out to 120yds on the rabbits, rarely bother with the HMR these days but can’t help but think it’s all going to go tits up with copper.

 

[Overlay]

I've set my anschutz up for these, now that it's really zeroed in, I'm hoping there won't be a problem with quality, supply and any further price hikes, price wise they are in the top drawer right now

 

[Bowland blades]

I’m dreading the time when this kicks in, my 22lr is like a laser with Eley subs and I shoot out to 120yds on the rabbits, rarely bother with the HMR these days but can’t help but think it’s all going to go tits up with copper.

Well I thought this could be the end! However reading about these not so bothered, when you think of it 22 lr ammo trade is worth millions many millions a year globally they are goingbto do something and if they cannot make it affordable in tge long run it's not going to sell against small cf
Think what it's worth to cci alone ?

 

[Boosh]

I'll go back into this again guys, not making trouble at all, and if a decent alternative ticks the box for personal choice, then I will go for it.
It has to be personal choice though, not a box ticking exercise.

22 ammo passes through the target and ends up in the ground not ingested by a second party, it does not expand to any fragmenting level, can be used for target shooting in ranges indoor and outdoor without becoming a toxic threat, likely to ricochet more when made of a harder compound making it more of a health and safety issue.

A bit more thought needs to go into why things need to change.