A theoretical excercise in the perfect stalking rifle

[chrisc]

i had a rifle built for my 40th last year and that is all i will use this is what i went for.

bat action
pacnor super match grade fluted profile 3 24 inch
jewell trigger
bat mounts
sunnyhill s/s floor plate
mcmillan remi classic edge tech stock pillar bedded
swarovski 6x18x50 A line scope
A-TEC cmm4 mod
caliber 7x64

and this complete rifle weighs in at 8lbs and is the best thing i did as i have gone through more rifles than i care to think.

GO FOR IT your only here once.

regards
chris

 

[Simjim33]

The whole idea seems to point to a bolt action bull pup to me carrying through the forest would be easy and weight would be better distributed and very easy to point, 6mmBR would be spot on too.

 

[6mmHOT]

Grandhuberrt

Its seems the perfect rifle you are describing already exist
A Blaser K95 with a 7 x 50 scope in 6.5 x 55 loaded with 100 grain Nosler Ballistic tips
Bloody safe, stylish, light, balance like a dream, dogs ******** in accuracy
Get a second hand one from Europe on egun and forget about all these custom jobbies
I met a stalker down south with one last year and have been wanting one ever since

 

[finnbear270]

You already have one, they are built on a Howa/Weathby action, fitted with a custom barrel, Tinmey trigger, and after market stock.


ATB

Tahr

Must be why I like my stretchy Howa then!

 

[ejg]

6mmhot
Don't think they come close in accuracy nor reliabilty to a custom barrel.
It's a different league.
Had R93 in this week to get the flimsy stock reinforced, bit like all injection moulded stocks.

Generally the biggest problem with custom rifles is that one gets carried away and has
a too heavy barrel fitted then the light stock is not as light as promised when it arrives.
edi

 

[Mat]

Amir,

I'm more or less attempting the same exercise for real, though I started with a custom target rifle: a custom remy clone in a McMillan A5 adjustable.

I've ditched the stock (far too heavy) and got one of Edi's (ejg) carbon fibre stocks: absolutely fantastic quality and low weight, far better workmanship than the A5.

For the scope, I too have gone with a Zeiss classic 7x50 illuminated, it being the lightest illuminated scope I could find, I don't reckon a variable is all that useful for stalking, my S&B 3-12 stays on 7-8x most of the time. Side by side in low light, the S&B has a slight edge in terms of sharpness, but there's not much in it. I got lucky and picked one up off Ebay!

As for the barrel, it currently still has an Archer 6mm, though I do have a slot for a 260 barrel, so some time I'll acquire one, most probably a 16" fluted archer. I reckon shorter is better, 6mm might need to be pushed quite hard to make deer legal minimum ME for that length, hence the 260, though 6.5x47 be nicer (though more expensive limited brass).

At some point I also plan to get a CG trigger, it currently has Rifle Basix one. I personally don't rate the Jewell, purely because it's a benchrest trigger and IMHO it doesn't belong on a stalking rifle

Moderator-wise I've got a PES (MAE) muzzle can, mainly because at the time I wanted an end can and the PES is reasonably light, stainless and cheaper than Jet-Z, I may get a Roedale/A-tec one at some point, though I imagine once I get a 16" barrel, it won't make much difference.

Mat

 

[john.d.m]

Why think "custom"or special build/order?? just buy a Heym sr30 in 30-06 put a Swarovski 2/5-10x42 on top of it, buy a couple of boxes of Federal 180 gr(premium) and go hunting.

 

[JabaliHunter]

I am thinking about getting a custom, if I can't find it ready made but I doubt it, stalking rifle for walking in the woods with.

I will of course continue to have dalliances with many other rifles and take all manner of kit away on foreign holidays shooting, into high seats and up the hill but don't want to mess about on this particular topic.

I have a list of attributes in mind and I would appreciate your thoughts on them and also anything that I may have missed:

1. Calibre: A calibre with sufficient power to take all UK species without producing excessive recoil in consideration of the ideal weight given at 2. This could be anything from .243 to 30.06 depending on personal preference. For some reason I am thinking 6mmBR on the one hand, 6.5x55 or 308 at the other.
2. Weight: Of sufficient weight not to kick the stalker to death when practising and also to hold steady enough on aim without bouncing at every heartbeat. Light enough to be carried between the hands for reasonable lengths of time without causing undue muscle fatigue. My Tikka weighs 7 1/2 pounds dry with mounts and the old meopta weighed at least a pound and a half. At 9 pounds it was at the limit of what could be comfortably carried between the hands as I discovered in Africa. I could do it for an hour or so before having to rest my arms or risk the lactic acid shakes if something did come out. I therefore think a change to a Zeiss 7x50 illuminated scope would save almost a pound on the scope and if another pound can be saved in the rifle it would have been a lot easier. I think therefore I want an all up weight of about 7-7 1/2 pounds.
3. Barrel length: The rifle should be moderated so a 20" barrel would keep it fairly handy. I am thinking that a light moderator, ie the roedale or CMM4, would enable a barrel of not too thin profile to be profitably used.
4. Action: A Remington action tricked up seems the most economical approach especially when stock availability is taken into account.
5. Stock: Synthetic or carbonfibre for weather resistance and weight saving.

Am I on the right track or should there be things I should consider?

In these things, if properly considered, the whole should be more than just the sum of the individual parts.

You are on exactly the right track. A few points to consider:
Look at a Remington 700 clone action like the Stiller Predator or Surgeon RSR, rather than a tricked out Rem 700 if you can swing it;
The 6.5x47 Lapua is a good choice;
The barrel profile will have the biggest impact on weight, at least in the parts where you can have any influence over it. Look at the magnum sporter profiles or light palma, fluted or not is up to you (but for 7-7.5lbs all up you will probably have to go for a medium sporter);
The hardest part will be getting the synthetic stock dimensions to "fit like a glove" and you may have to special order a specific LOP which can take months...

 

[User00003]

For a woodland rifle I'm surprised you don't want to go for something pretty, Sauer, Blaser, Larsen & Schultz, etc. I'd think shots would be short, weight is not too important but length to be kept down for 'branch' purposes. Probably won't get too soaked, so a nice wood should be ok...just my feelings.

Now, for a 'hill' rifle, I'd be more inclined to go for the semi custom job...IMHO, leave the full custom job for the range queens, they are too expensive, too heavy, take too long to build...when I say semi custom job, I'd be thinking along the lines of a Sako 75 with either a bedded stock/action, or aftermarket stock, duracoat treated for the hill, and maybe with a new barrel if necessary.

 

[User00021]

You might want a boar so .270, 7mm etc. How about a sauer 202 with a new barrel from border barrels. The steel action is preferable unless you can get the alloy action with the integral weaver bases. Also one of the lighter mods delta, atec etc if your only stalking.

 

[Thar]

Interesting, will have to have a look.

Does the shotgun safety lock the bolt or just the trigger?

If it locks both, can you cycle the bolt with the safety on?

Last thing is there anything under the stock line to rust if you're out in the rain?

I mean does it need to be taken out of it's stock to be dried after a real soaking?

Hi Hubert

The safety does lock the bolt down, but you have to take it off to open the bolt, it is not a 3 position one. The Browning X-bolt has a button on the bolt so you can do this but not the A-Bolt.

The Action is Titanium so no chance of that rusting, the barrel is stainless steel and floorplate is aluminium, so they are as rust proof as you can get.

The Standard Stock is a Bell and Carlson Carberlite, not a bad choice for a lightweight stalking stock. The triggers need a bit of work, a new spring kit is available from the US for £12, mine has been reworked by PRS and is set at 1.5lbs, I don’t think you would want anything less than that on a field rifle. Mine shoots 5/8” groups with hand loads, there are few people that can shoot better than 1MOA when stalking, shooting off sticks etc when stalking. When new they cost 3 times as much as a standard A-Bolt but you can pick them up second-hand if you are in no rush for £500-800. I was just about to buy a Finnlight when my Ti came up, I had seen a write up in a US mag’ years before and thought I want one, but didn’t think I would find one in the UK.

The 3 lug bolt is the perfect design in my opinion, think of a 3 legged stool, it is always stable, a two bolt or a 4 bolt can not achieve this without perfect lapping of the lugs.

Sorry but for my stalking a single shot rifle would risk compromising deer welfare, roe does with kids or reds with calves, I want a second round up the spout pretty quick, if you are doing crop protection you will want to cull multiple animals at one time when the chance occurs.

I have Walther barrel in the cabinet for my A-Bolt , un-chambered just waiting for me to get my finger out and do something with it.

If you are around my area you are welcome to look at mine.

ATB

Tahr

 

[Grandhubert]

Thanks guys.

I'm off shooting to Scotland for the weekend so I'll have a considered read and post in substance when i get back.

Keep the very intresting posts coming.

Regards,

Amir

 

[j0e_bl0ggs]

Why think "custom"or special build/order?? just buy a Heym sr30 in 30-06 put a Swarovski 2/5-10x42 on top of it, buy a couple of boxes of Federal 180 gr(premium) and go hunting.

Beginning to like the sr30. Would love to try one in the flesh as it were...

 

[User00003]

Beginning to like the sr30. Would love to try one in the flesh as it were...

..just dress up like a deer..

 

[Brithunter]

Every ones idea of the ideal is different and let's face it the world would be a really boring place if we all had exactly the same. In fact that's the communist ideal, except for the top bodies of course who must have better as they are better than the cattle..................... whoops sorry workers, now for a me a lot of the rifles mentioned here as ideal are downright horrible to my thinking and are in no way my ideal. I have always regretted missing two oppertunities in buying rifles First was I should have gone for the finance and brought that Chapuis 8x57R SxS from Jack Woods of F.A. Anderson.

The other was a beautiful new falling black made by a Scottish smith and a glossy advert appeared on the back on Shooting Times I seem to recall. I did speak to the smith by phone but it seems that having one made in 303 British was problem and I didn't really fancy the 7x65R then I lost the number and advert and have never discovered who the smith was again and what happened to the rifles he was making and yes it seems he made the whole rifle except barrel which he brought blanks in for. Watson keeps coming to mind but am not sure it's correct.

Oh well.

 

[Markc]

As this is theoretical :
hollandandholland.com/pdfs/Shotgunpricelist.pdf
Scroll down till you get to "bolt action magazine rifle"

 

[65SWED]

Go for the 6.5x55 swede and don't fit a sound moderator nor a bipod. I have done both in the past and now travel light and it makes a nice rifle a pleasure to use, the 6.5x55 is a nice round to shoot with little recoil. There is a range of bullets from 85gn to a thumping 160gn roundnose to cover all our deer and vermin, you wont be dissapointed.

 

[Eyefor]

Thanks Pierre, you may just live to regret that kind offer!

Or....

...travel a bit further up the A1 to deepest North Bedfordshire (Pierre can give you directions) and try my 7mm-08 Savage stainless / synthetic with noooo trigger and put home brew 100gr, 140gr and 175gr Sierra's damn near through the same hole at 100 and 200 yards.

Does all I need

 

[glogin]

Steyr Mannlicher Ultralite or Classic Light in .308Win. (7x64 or 30.06 available as well) 20" fluted barrel, great trigger (set or direct if you want), integral weaver rail so no need for bases, 2.9kg (6.4lb).

Greg

 

[deeangeo]

Hmm...tricky one this. So much to choose from. Easiest is a Blaser K95 probably .260 Rem. if they would do it for you, don't see why not, they made one in .25-06 Rem for me (Unlisted, but they did it). Barrel is 20.5".
I believe Sauer make some barrels for Blaser??
A dream to carry..takes down too, for those really long treks. Easy to reload a single shot rifle too, once you've developed the knack!
An R8 if you want a bolt action & insist on a synth. stock.

Full blown custom job, pick your barrel - I'd say Shilen, Lilja or Krieger, Border are good too - blued or stainless, (Blued is better with wood, I think) twist - 1 in 8 for a 129/130gn bullet, action GBR (Google GBR Actions) sounds very interesting, Stock, buy a nice piece of wood, but sythnthetic if you want & will be cheaper, but less of a custom fit. With wood, you can have your stocker tailor it exactly to your liking.
Calibre still .260 Rem. Trigger - probably Jewel, should be sweet enough for you.
Scoped up nicely, any of the above will be just fine & take anything in the UK with ease.
Have fun, Cheers.