Seeing the reaction to shot with a .260?

[NickJ]

.260 quite similar to 6.5x55, I had an ultralight Roedale moderator on my 6.5x55 and could not see (or sometimes here) the reaction to shot. I put a Hardy Gen (and now a DPT) mod on and it solved that problem by adding just a wee bit of weight. A McMillan stock even more so. It is a bit heavier than the factory synthetic Sako 85 stock and probably fits a bit better.

I think it's more important to see the deer's reaction to the shot than the actual strike. Basically, I want to reduce recoil to be able to maintain a sight picture after the shot, especially when you want to take a number of animals from a herd. Weight and the right moderator (also giving weight) should achieve this. You should 'load' your bipod a bit but you don't want to be gripping your rifle too hard, you need to be relaxed (I was taught.)

Having used factory non lead ammo for this season on hill reds I have found myself reaching for the 30:06 but, again have not been seeing the reaction to the shot very well. I hate that. I either need to put on a heavier mod (it has a newish Barton Gunworks light one on currently) or go back to the 6.5.

One advantage of a Vorn backpack over a sling is I'm happy to add weight to a hill rifle now as you don't notice it.

 

[Shabz]

I had a semi custom .270 Sako 85 with a McMillan stock, a real long barrel and an ASE Utra sl5i on it which I sold to a pal who hated it until he swapped the moderator for a T8 mod. He reckons it’s far more civilised now. The replacement that I have is an 85 with a shorter barrel and a wildcat moderator on it which I think is much the same as the first one I had. I might try down loading some bullets and see if there’s much difference. I also might try a longer length of pull (I’m 6’4 and have baboon arms) to see if that makes a difference.

 

[Norway]

Will I be able to see what I’ve shot through the scope?

I need to shoot 100gr copper and would prefer a short action round

Yes. Lie/sit/stand correctly (squared) behind the rifle and you'll see the strike no problem.

 

[Terrydeer]

I have a 260 with a 20” CTR barrel and tikka supervarmint stock and a Hausken mod, using 129gr SST and I enjoy to bring able to see what happens.

 

[Namman]

My .260 isn't the lightest of stalking rifles and I don't see bullet strikes.

This thread reminds me of the Emperors New Clothes. Only the most intelligent can see the strike. the foolish ,including me, can't.

 

[User00033]

It’s all about controlling muzzle flip. This has everything to do with (a) your grip and body position relative to the line of sight, (b) the stock setup, (c) muzzle blast suppression. Magnification is important too.

Regarding body position, there are lots of instructional videos and articles out there. This is really important not just for maintaining the target in the sight picture, but also for accuracy. It’s much easier for you to watch some of these videos then write it all down. There are some excellent old instructional booklets from various Armed Forces that describe the different shooting positions for maximum firearm control and field accuracy.

Stock design definitely. I have far greater control with a pistol grip or “target” style grip than a hunting rifle stock. The absolute worst stock for me was the Kimber. Then there is the vital relationship between the height of the ocular lens, cheek-weld to the stock and contact of the buttstock to the shoulder - this is make or break for how the rifle transfers the recoil impulse. If your head is too high and the buttstock isn’t properly “bedded” in the crease between the shoulder and collarbone, there is a tendency for the recoil impulse to angle down rather than straight back parallel to the barrel. As the buttstock goes down, the muzzle goes up. You need to minimise any downward direction of recoil impulse at the shoulder.

I shoot a .308 Winchester with a hottish 165 grain load in a DPT pistol grip chassis. Simple straight tube and alloy plate buttstock. No recoil pad. The ergonomics of this set up are outstanding - I maintain the animal in the sight picture in all positions, the rifle is deadly accurate and I don’t feel it kick. Yet the factory Tikka stock was a bastard for biting me in the collarbone. There is something about the Tikka stock shape that doesn’t quite work, and I no longer use them on any of my rifles other than a .223 SuperVarmint which is totally different to the standard model.

When shooting prone, I do not subscribe to the “hand off the forend” style of shooting, with the left hand / arm tucked in under your chest and buttstock. My left hand has a vital role to play in controlling muzzle flip, with a firm but not excessive grip on the forend, pulling it downwards. I also prefer to use a bipod with spikes. A good bipod set up makes a huge difference.

When shooting off hand I use the sling to stabilise the forend. I have two rifles that are shot almost exclusively offhand, with narrow leather slings specifically for this purpose, a lightweight .223 and a .308 BLR. Again, lots of instruction on this on the net. I can get the BLR so “tucked in” to my shoulder with a tight left hand / sling / elbow setup that I can cycle the lever with the right hand without losing sight of the running game.

I find shooting with sticks the hardest. The height of the rifle rest is critical, and shooting with someone else’s sticks is a pain in the arse. I want the sticks to set up at exactly the same height that I would be shooting offhand.

Suppression is a no brainer. A good suppressor makes a massive difference. A muzzle break can also be very effective.

As an example of how it all comes together, I’ve been shooting a 28 Nosler with a T2 brake at proper long range in the last couple of years, it’s a very powerful rifle yet the setup and stock design is spot on for close control of the (impressive) recoil impulse. For spotting your own shot, the final trick is not to use too much magnification. Generally speaking you need less than you think you do. It gives you such an improved field of view that even with a hard kicking cartridge like the 28 you can see what the animal does at the business end. This magnification principle is the same for all my centrefire rifles - only use enough mag to be confident of placing the shot, and use the field of view to see what’s going on immediately after it hits. Winding the scope up to maximum magnification at relatively close stalking range is usually one of the biggest contributing reasons as to why someone loses the animal in their sight picture.

 

[3 Roe]

I love my 2 rifles (Tikka TAC A1 and SAKO 85 black wolf) in 260 Remington. Both are so accurate with Hornady 143g ELDX. 120g TTSX also does the business.

 

[rem284]

For me 6.5-284 would be the answer. I've had a 260, still got a 270, 6.5-284 and a 6.5x47. The one I would not be without is the 6.5-284

 

[User00040]

It's more to do with technique and not the caliber/chambering.

However, an incorrectly designed stock and wrong cheek height will increase the effect of recoil.

Even a .22LR or PCP air rifle has recoil but the impulse is not proportionate to the mass of the rifle, hence the lack of perceived kick.

Poor recoil management is 'hidden' by a heavy rifle and low recoil impulse cartridge, worse still when the shooter decides to lighten the trigger to mere ounces with incorrect technique.

@Norway (THLR) has a few good series on rifle shooting which everyone should watch:

https://www.youtube.com/user/sierra645/playlists

Contrary to some people's views, it is much easier to control recoil when standing with sticks vs. shooting off a bipod in prone, as with the former you have your whole body acting as a 'stressed member' when the sticks are set up correctly, but you will also be less 'stable' in aiming.

Another tip is to shoot at things further away, at 50m you probably won't see anything but 500m is a different matter!

 

[Sharpie]

I have a theory, untested, that although stock design and fit is of course supremely important, so must be the overall linear balance of the rifle.

By which I mean, if you suspended it from the muzzle, a perfect balance would have the boreline exactly vertical. Stock weight being one factor and always misaligned with the bore, most of the mass being below it. But counterbalanced by the 'scope weight, mounted above it.

If the mass was balanced in this way, the free recoil part of the equation ought to be linear, without a rotational (flipping) component. Making a relatively loose hold satisfactory. And a massive heavy target/varmint profile barrel of less need.

Once the free recoil part is over (very quickly, the bullet should be out of the muzzle before then, and before the rifle has compressed the fleshy bits of your shoulder) then that kinetic energy can move the rifle about in several ways. Which is where stock fit comes in. I think.

But then, if not perfectly balanced in this way, mass in the butt, or from a heavy barrel, or even at the muzzle from a heavy silencer could increase the rotational moment of inertia, and it's axis, maybe around the grip, or further forward, and so help too in reducing muzzle flip, after the actual shot has left.

Of course this system is not stiff, far from it, so all sorts of other things could be going on as well. Gut feel is that a short barrelled rifle, firmly bedded in a well fitting rigid lightweight stock, probably carbon/kevlar or a lightweight metal chassis, with a balanced scope mass, could be optimal.

Differences in scope mass, and mounting height, might help to tune out muzzle flip, to an extent.

As for recoil, well there are two aspects, that from accelerating the bullet, which is easy to calculate, knowing the mass of the bullet, it's muzzle velocity, and the mass of the rifle. As energy, and velocity with which the rifle delivers that energy to the shoulder. Then there is that from the mass of the powder, turned into gas, which typically contributes 30% or more to the total. Think powder weight vs. bullet weight. Whilst the bullet is in the barrel these make real recoil. As soon as the bullet pops out of the muzzle it is gone. The gas behind it can be put to use through a brake with rearward facing ports, or by trapping it within a silencer to be released more slowly, both of which can tug the rifle forwards again and bring it back to keep the target picture. Or a simple brake that just projects the gas sideways, can tame muzzle flip, assuming that the main porting is on the top.

 

[75]

I’ve got a sako 75 synthetic chambered in 260. Sometimes I see the strike, sometimes I don’t. I’ve also got a custom 6.5-284 in a McMillan stock. Sometimes I see the strike and sometimes I don’t!

Depends on too many variables to say you will or won’t see shot strike with a particular calibre.

 

[Sako75Hunter]

It’s all about controlling muzzle flip. This has everything to do with (a) your grip and body position relative to the line of sight, (b) the stock setup, (c) muzzle blast suppression. Magnification is important too.

Regarding body position, there are lots of instructional videos and articles out there. This is really important not just for maintaining the target in the sight picture, but also for accuracy. It’s much easier for you to watch some of these videos then write it all down.

Another great instructive post, thanks Dodgy.

If you get a chance, a link or two to videos you consider particularly good on this would be appreciated, especially any that feature shooting off sticks.

Cheers.

 

[cjs66]

Moderated?

I use a 6.5x55 with 120 NBTs at 2860, sl5 moderator, always see the shot, same as the creedmoor shooting 129s at similar speed through a jet z.

Not so much with the .280 or .308.

Blaser R8 with a Z8, 56mm objective scope and a Hauksen(?) mod, not the lightest of setups but, by no means a range rig. Aye, there's even less chance with my 308 and 168g doing a tad over 2700fps. 308 wears a DPT so both mods are pretty much on the lightweight side of things. Maybe all the weight is in the wrong place?

cjs

 

[angusb1]

I wondered recently if downloading my 270 might allow me to see the bullet strike. Haven't got round to trying it yet although I do have some 110gr soft points I could use on deer and some 110gr vmax for foxing.